Whatever you are offering ‘sexual energy’, they are not the Loa of Africa and its diaspora.
Stop right there.
... and those who practice Vodoun Gnosis would disagree.
What those who practice ‘Vodoun Gnosis’ think is irrelevant to the subject of Vodou, as Bertiaux’s dabblings, whatever else they may be, are not Vodou, Hatian, West African or any other sort, and that is a judgment with which every last Vodouisant outside of Bertiaux’s self-proclaimed practitioners you will ever meet will agree. Take his ‘Workbook’, his magnum opus, one could say; for a work on ‘Vodoun’ it is surprising to find that it has almost nothing whatsoever to do with Vodou. In fact, beyond the first few chapters on ‘Lucky Hoodoo’ - which is, as far as Vodou is concerned - a load of crap made up by Bertiaux, from the history, to the beliefs, to the nuts and bolts of the religion of Vodou. The rest is just bad Kabbalah mixed in with Thelemic sex magic and the complete and utter and most bizarre nonsense concocted by Bertiaux’s deranged mind. It makes even the most pretentious word soup of Postmodernist philophastry look intelligible. Vodou? The book doesn’t even deal with its most essential and basic aspects. Where are the prayers? Where is one shown how to do the salutes? How to build altars to the nations? What to offer and how to serve the various Loa? How to honour ones ancestors? How to find which Loa walk with you? Give me a break. Beartiaux’s cult is no more Vodou than David Koresh’s was Catholic.
I believe Dr.Deprince was a long time Student of his Order.
I don’t know about that.
But I have heard what your claiming before, Usually from those who don't have direct experience.
Usually from actual Vodouisants, rather than deluded dabbling Westerners who think that the best source to learn about the traditional religions of West Africa springs from the mouth of a loony fat French fag and his bathhouse manual to sordid gay sex. And, frankly, the racism inherent in your ‘we know better’ than the very people who walk with the Loa every day and were handed down their people’s religion from their ancestors since time immemorial sickens me to the pit of my stomach.
[quote=“empyrean93”] Welll…It’s Gnostic Voudon ? Voudon is a religion, but from what I have read that much of what we would consider “magickal” is outside the religion itself like the same difference how Jews Muslims and Catholics believe and prayer , but don’t condone grimoires, demons and djinn and other esoteric paths within those religions. Their is a side tradition for evocation within these traditions, most of the grimoires have no historical credibility as a pre existing tradition, but are like note books of “heres what I have heard or what the spirits told me etc”.
I am not an expert by any means but I think their are many hidden traditions coming from direct experience that go against history or historical explanation I think this applies within Vodaun too. I have read outside of VGN/E.A/Deprince that the works of a Bocor can be called “Kabbalah like manipulations” and that it can materialize objects among other things.
I have to say learning more about the esoteric currents within Haiti 1600’s on , it seems their has been new blends coming out around that spiritual system for along time now. The Qlippoth as dark pathways and even the “backside” of the tree is nutters, but I have experienced some similar phenomena when throwing deep hexes where I just get overwhelmed by feelings I can only describe as “about to puke and shit through the front of my stomach” and when it go away feel like something actually leaving throw the front.
Who knows what’s been going on in Haiti all these hundreds of years? The Barons and Ghede spirits in the form they exist in Haiti supposedly do not exist in Africa at all, but at some point he supposed to be made revealed? I also read that Petro as a designation not exist in Africa (not sure about that one) Revelation happens at some point, but how to go about judging Gnosis? In Tibetan religions they call it a “Terma” or buried treasure, a revealed truth that was waiting to come out.
I think VGN is not the historical religion of Vodoun at all, but is it trying to be? Just puttin it out there. Whether Vodoun or anything else, when I feel brave and impatient I just say “take my blood and fluids” as they are in my body. It usually gets a little insane after that, but u know? Blood is messy…[/quote]hello, most of the spirits of petro nation you find in africa, they origin in congo, sometimes they are under same names, sometimes they changed a bit, but MOST of them are of african origin. and we ( vodouisants) NEVER ever offer our own blood, from very simple reason that you become toy for a spirit , you become his property. and offering other fluids…hmmm… you are going to make them really angry.
Those spirits are just so angry at all those crazy Voudon gnostics… Or not.
[quote=“The Eye”]Agree with Jou Maler.
Someone who’d give his own blood to Lwa would only show how ignorant he is about vaudou.
Lwas don’t require blood of the practitioner but constancy, discipline and dedication in service.[/quote]
I’m not sure I totally agree with this or completely understand. At least not in all contexts of blood offerings. Could you give some examples why and any personal experience on the subject?
Also, how do you see the communion of possession with the Loa less ignorant, since one would be offering the blood essence to them? Or is something else occurring?
Actually UndeadGod, (And I will note that my experience is with Santeria, not Vodou) your not far off. In possession the Orishas consume blood offerings, just as in Palo or Kindoki a the ngangas/fetishes are offered blood from a rooster, but never ones own as it is believed that the nkisi may become vampiric and stalk human prey. When the Orishas come down to ride their children they literally consume the blood of an offering like something you’d see in a vampire flick. Also, I knew one gentleman who was shocked when a chicken was offered and literally "deflated’’ in front of him, lol. But generally speaking, nibloodn these traditions offerings of ones own blood are not advised. If you havent already read the book, an initiate of the Order of the Voltec wrote a basic treatise on Kindoki (Palo Mayombe without all the religious bullshit) entitled Kindoki: A Manual of African Witchcraft and Brujeria. I think you’d like that book. I have the PDF somewhere so I’ll send you a copy when I get the chance to look for it
Seriously considering it. My instructor wants me to get the abajarr where they call down Orunla and he reveals the identity of my crown Orisha, but before I commit to that path Id like to be sure it would still be open to explore others. Some of the Orishas demand highly disciplined lives of their (initiated) children. You must pass through a system of receiving certain fetishes and talismanic necklaces (which are also fed with blood) before you can consult the spirits to determine whether or not you are called to undergo the asiento. Right now I am still only an Aleyo (neophyte)
This is all very interesting stuff.A book I really enjoyed is David Beths Voudon Gnosis as well as his SVGs ATUA. In it there is some info on the Nganga of the JuJu Rouge cult in it which David is part of. I’m pretty sure he was born in Africa and the offerings are Sexual energy. This requires a high level of skill due to energy “feedback” within the central nervous system, and ones own blood to the Nkisas. Not the normal exoteric stuff.
Yeah, I will note that what Beth, EA, and Bertiauxe practice is totally different from the traditions you’ll find in Haiti. Many would discard them as attempts to westernize Vodou, but they do seem to work and I beleive thats all that matters in the end. As far as the shall we say “uncut” traditions go, they are not easily penetrated. I did like the concept of astral shifting into a tarantula and killing by fire in the astral plane though…
And yes, your Crown Orisha would be the same as your Lwa met Tet. He or She is said to “own your head”