Scrying with Sastan

Hello BALG,

I’ve been pathworking through WoD and I have now arrived at the chapter on scrying. I’ve made my own scrying mirror and I’ve been trying to scry for a week now every time before I go to bed.

In the book it mentions that once you see the white/gray fog you know you’re doing it right and can start contacting Sastan. I however have been unable to get to this point. I’ve searched this forum and many others but they all deal with problems AFTER people saw the white fog, but I don’t even get to that point. The mirror remains dark.

Any suggestions or tips on how I can start seeing the fog?

Thanks a lot!

Try visualising the white fog, even if you don’t see it - in other words, imagine it’s there.

This isn’t (obviously) about playing imaginary games - it’s about opening the portal a little between “real” and created, between “perceived” and “projected” - which gives the phenomena room to happen.

In core shamanism, an established and (in my experience and that of many other people) effective method of healing, divination, and sundry other things, you begin by visualising - imagining - a tree - this visualised/imagined tree then infills with some kind of fundamental (and external, objective) energy and becomes the World Tree, the axis mundi for the shaman.

And I believe the structuring method E.A. has described as an important part of evocation works along similar lines - it’s a literal “If you build it, they will come” using your magickal imagination instead of your mundane daydreamy-style imagination.

Finally, you could consider it as setting aside a little “attentional bandwidth” within your own mind, for the manifestation to begin to be perceived…

Anyway sorry to ramble, just trying to put some context to back up what might otherwise look like a supremely unhelpful answer! :slight_smile:

Black mirror scrying isn’t my main method so maybe other people who are more expert will chime in with more, later today.

Alright thanks, I will try that tonight!

Also you don’t have to apologize for rambling, always interesting to learn new things about the occult and magick.

What is your main method if I may ask?

Also could it be that my third eye or astral senses aren’t open/developed enough to scry?

Equal parts soul-travel, scrying using walls (fine line between what’s “scrying” and what’s “opening portals” but that’s a digression), and evocation - I began with evoking spirits into statues and drawings when I was younger.

Also could it be that my third eye or astral senses aren't open/developed enough to scry?

I honestly think that throwing some - energy, attention, I don’t know the right term, don’t even know if there is one? - via magickal imagination is the key to opening your senses, and not just waiting for the spirit to pop up like on a TV (NOT saying you’re doing that, but I’m exaggerating for emphasis).

It’s how the core shamanism thing works, and I’ve seen that work for absolute beginners - I’m not an expert in E.A.'s methods but he talks about “structuring” a lot for evocation, as well. Try using the search on here for that term, it might help.

It’s also how the LBRP (which is pretty classical and established) is done, so I’m not just - erm, well, “imagining” this concept! :slight_smile:

I think one of the reasons some of us here who started as kids get good results (at least in terms of evocation & psi senses, I’m not saying I can turn cabbages into gold or fly or anything) is that kids are on the boundary between “sensed” and “imagined” more, they’re willing to reach out just that little bit and imagine “what if” whereas adults (usually correctly) want everything nailed down into “real/not real” and “imaginary/genuine” categories.

That’s great if you’re running a nuclear reactor or driving a 16-wheeler, but not so much when you first need to breakthrough and make contact. IMO anyway. :slight_smile:

Anyway I think it’s worth trying and also hopefully you’ll get some other people discussing their methods as well.

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If you can spend even just 10 minutes a day to just scry into your mirror with no preconceived intent you will get the hang of it in about a month.

You don’t even need the mirror, you can relax your gaze and stare off into open space if you want. Eventually as you relax your mind and just go with it you will notice that your vision has hazed over. Stick with this and you will see fantastical scenes play out as you are beginning to see the astral world. This part of the Astral is the liminal part, or the place where all the influences from the Stars, Planets, and Elements are condensing and about to affect the manifest world so don’t be surprised if you end up having visions of the near likely future (fun tip, try playing around with those scenes like you are directing them and see if you can “remote influence” future events)

Once you are used to this scrying is easier.

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Scrying takes time to master. At the point of seeing white fork inside the mirror, it shows your third eye is opening. Well, in my case I used occult oils and it helped stimulate the third eye. But aside from that, it took time before I could even experience anything. All the same, it’s really based on individual. So my advice is, follow the WoD’s instruction and do it with the intent that a tangible result will come out. From my experience now, I can boldly say the greatest asset in practicing the occult is faith.

Thanks for all the replies!

@Lady Eva, Thanks for the advice, I will put it to good use.

@Orismen, I’m currently scrying for 20 minutes each evening, I suppose I will just keep practicing.

@Amorifier, What kind of oils did you use? And how long did it take before you started to experience things?

So I’ve been practicing scyring every day for 15 minutes before I go to bed since my last post. I’ve been trying to imagine the white fog there but that hasn’t worked yet. It just makes me realize I’m not seeing anything at all.

So I have a few more questions:

  1. Will you all of the sudden start to see clear images or will you begin with seeing vague small things that become clearer every session?

  2. How long did it take you to start seeing spirits in your mirror and how did you succeed? (I’m learning to scry because I want to be able to communicate with spirits and verify their existance )

  3. I’m currently working with sastan by opening his sigil before every scrying session, should I consider a different spirit?

Hello there. I’m new to scrying as well. But I’ve been having a few successes here and there. What has been working for me is, as with anything, don’t try too hard. If visualizing feels frustrating to you, then just don’t.

Just relax your body and mind, and let go. Whatever you see, or think you see, just accept it for what it is. As EA says, don’t question these things. At first it seems that you’re making everything up. You might feel like a stupid kid. But then again, the images are real, and you should always trust yourself.

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I say this because at first, the visions you receive may not necessarily be very vivid, and it’d seem you’re just consciously influencing it. Just let go and allow the vision to come to you, whatever it may be, if you feel the need to analyze it, by all means, do so. But after the scrying session.

My most incredible scrying session was in a Catholic church. I had to be there and didn’t have anything to do so I just looked at a huge painting on the wall and activated my “scrying gaze”. Minutes later I could see angels, demons, and a very strange being, it seemed to be an alien…it had big black eyes, and it gave me the feel to represent some very strong type of intelligence.

Those are very strange visions, especially the alien thing. However, it was an amazing session, it felt emotionally very moving and I felt much more confident to keep my practices. That only happened because I just didn’t pay ANY attention to conscious thoughts and kept the practices consistently for a few days or so!

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Since no one else has mentioned this, what are you doing with your eyes? Are you actually focusing your eyes on the mirror, or are you relaxing your eyes til they lose focus? The first is staring, the second is gazing. You want to do the second. Even if you get some double vision from de-focusing, it’s fine. Staring will get you nowhere. Same with opening a sigil, you relax your focus, like when you’re just spacing out and daydreaming.

If you’re already doing that, then I can only reiterate what everyone else has said: relax. Go into it with no expectations, and just gaze and empty your mind. I’ve been scrying for about six months, on and off. I can’t see spirit, or hear it at this point, so no, I haven’t manifested a spirit in my mirror. I do however see things, and have since the first day. The first time was spectacular, and I posted about it here. Nothing as spectacular since then, but I always see “energy”? I don’t know what is, but I see anything from aquamarine colored mists, red mists, faint nebulous glows that fade in then out, orbs that either streak across the mirror, or rarely shoot out of the mirror towards me. I also experience the hazing over Orismen mentioned, but that’s recent and I still can’t stick with it long enough to get funky, lol.

Curiously, what I DON’T see, is this fog everyone talks about. Oh, and I see smoke. Some of it flows out of the mirror, but most of it is outside the mirror, around me, and usually moves in from my right. Pretty cool, and it looks and acts exactly like tendrils of smoke. I view this as a good sign that my inner senses are opening slowly. I posted about the smoke, too. A couple members here also see it. IIRC, none of us know what it is, exactly. FWIW, for awhile now, I can see this smoke anytime, anywhere, just by relaxing my gaze. It’s harder to see in brighter environments, but I can just see it.

I don’t know if any of this will be helpful or not, but just stick with it, and relax. Also, if you’re not already meditating, you should. You really need to get into a very quiet place in your mind. The couple of times I’ve been able to totally let go, and see what I believe are scenes playing in front of me, but it’s very faint, so I can’t say for certain. I’ve learned many, or maybe all things in magick, are learned skills. Skills take time to learn, and often have prerequisite skills that need to be learned and practiced first. Good luck, don’t get discouraged, and keep posting.

Thank you for the replies!

I was indeed having some issues with staring vs gazing, I believe I was switching between the two. I suppose I need to practice a bit more on gazing without moving my eyes from place to place on the mirror but instead keeping them fixed on one spot.

This is what Julius Evola wrote about gazing:
As I said, stare at it. This is both all and nothing. “Staring” is a verb that
encompasses a long search, an uncertain path built with the secret art of a careful, subtle, and prudent dosage, combining and equilibrating the active and the passive, the sensitive and the determinative elements of the soul. I can be of little help here. You must open the way by yourself and walk with your own feet.
Let your staring be effortless, without apparent will (like fire under the
ashes), as if you were about to gently fall asleep. Stare at it and then abandon your gaze, try not to think about it anymore; forget about it. Sight is the starting point, but in reality your whole soul will be active in the operation, and its fixed staring is only a means to fix itself.
Intensify this abandonment by loving it, agreeing with it, tempering it
with a sweet persistence, until it becomes a continuous thing that no longer seeks to resist you, when you push it even deeper. On the other hand, you must resist a presence that is subtle and not subjected to you namely yourself as a simple point that fear cannot halt and that knows how to retain and preserve itself. This presence does not obstruct the direction of your abandonment, riding it instead, not becoming dissolved during the various phases, but rising up again with the unexpected experience of a greater simplicity, strength, and transparency. What occurs here is an initial convergence of Sulfur and Mercury, of Sun and Moon; you must know the work as the first preparation of the Caduceus of Hermes.
The obstacles—aside from those that occur at the end of the opera-
tion—consist in the excessive or unbalanced mixture of the mercurial and sulfuric elements. I have said that the preparation should make the bodily nature calm, pliant, and harmonious, under your control. You must now take this nature gently and lead it to the operation without alerting it. If you are impatient and clumsy, employing excessive force, the bodily nature will react, and free itself of you; in an instant, you will be thrown back to the starting point. At first these instinctive reactions are unavoidable, but they should not discourage you. Try again, with a new spirit, at the same hour, and subtly insist, as Eliphas Levi says, like "the wave that ever returns and eventually carves even iron."
The reactions and instinctive alarms of your body will be followed by
those of the spirit if the latter is not strengthened enough. You will experience a sort of fainting, the sense of the ground giving way; you will shudder and rapidly react and thus find yourself back at the starting point.
The way will remain closed until you awaken in yourself an even faster
readiness, with which you will suddenly stop the reaction before it sus-
pends the fluidic detachment.
The opposite defect consists in the possibility of abandoning oneself to abandonment, thus dissolving self-awareness. This would lower the world of magicians to the world of mediums and of visionaries, the world of the supersensible to the world of the subsensible. In the medium, the center is dissolved and his consciousness slips down, becomes immersed in the body, becoming the body’s own consciousness. A medium is fully dependent on the body; what he experiences are emergences and “projections” of the turbid tendencies and the elementary forces enclosed in his organism. The sign of this perversion and abortion of the operation is a sense of deadly tiredness that will overtake you as soon as you return to the normal state, since other forces will have fed on your strength.
To create an ever more decisive preponderance of the intellectual cen-
ter over the peripheral sensibility that is in contact with the external world, and also over the organic and subconscious elements—such is the work of the “preparation” mentioned at the start of this essay. This preponderance leads to the already mentioned state = 0 , where the mind joins itself and realizes the experience of independence, subsistence, and superiority in regard to everything that is bodily and animal. When the detachment of the fluidic body occurs, through your fixing that is made continuous and boldly intensified in the inner direction, one support is taken from you;
you must remain absolutely steady in this pure, immaterial, extra-cerebral state of mind and of the "Self. "If you are not up to it, the mediumistic and sleepwalking state sets in, in which the liberated fluidic body lacks a nucleus, thus becoming a passive instrument of the inferior world.
However, if you actively go beyond the neutral point, you will realize
the “Rebirth in the Mind” in the “Magnesium of the Wise” (the Elixir). From the golden nucleus of your perfected, concentrated, and one mind , an intellectual light will break forth, in which you will realize a new, powerful, transformed sense of Self. You will be able to see. You will be awake.

This is from Introduction to Magic.

opened / Developed oneugh is relative.

I, personally rarely see Spirits with open eyes. if i do, i most oftenly used my light-scrying before, where i convert natrually, just by Relaxing, the stripes outcoming from a lightsource, as Little orbs of light.
To be Dots, basicly i form molecules, out of waves, in the glow of light sources.

it’s rather easy, when you relax, and de-Focus.

however, your visual sensations may be different.

But it’s also a Level of how you Approach it.

i personally invoke, way more then i evoke.

most of the time, when i evoke, i use stuff like Music, movies, etc, for Divination.

i follow a plot, and look, which thougt’s arise.

and more often then not, i get good result’s with it.

I’d say, a good start, is Meditation, with a candle.

when you feel, like eyes are tired, flip them upwards, towards the back of your skull.

Focus your energy going in, and focusing on the pineal glend.
Which is the physical Manifestation, of the ajna Chakra.

from there on, you may go deeper, into your zeal Chakra, followed by your heart Chakra.

resonate it there.

turn your heartchakra, like a weel, around your Thymus glend. (which is where your Focus should be now.)
from there, go down to the inner side of your nable. resonate the Energy again, and go back, (if you didn’t fall asleep)
From there on, you go back up, to heart, zeal, pineal, eyes, candle.

this usually gives very intense, fast results.

it’s a comergion of the complete Body.

you may even add your higher self (it is linked with the pineal glend),
to join it with your Focus.

that way, you shine your own, personal light, into the candle.

turning any tee-size candle, into a very powerful scrying tool.

also, once you done that, you may use electric light sources aswell.

they become just as usual, also, black surfaces are great for scrying.


Ok, here is what you need to know, just because some people see a white dog does not mean that you will magick is different for everyone and what you may experience much like myself is a blurring and almost stepping back from the reality you are in and getting a fisheye perspective. You may be like me and instead of seeing fog what you see is the parts of reality you are removed from. If you are looking with your eyes you are doing it wrong. Look with that which is behind your eyes your third eye and it is part of the brain. It is the visual cortex where visual images are interpreted by the brain and not from the physical eyes themselves. Any questions?


thanks. :slight_smile:

…i rather formulate a triangle with the three eyes,
as i said,
i work a lot with physical Tools for my divinations.