Reincarnated Goetic Spirits?


#1

Okay, in the other forum I pay a visit there are some guys who claim to be incarnated goetic spirits, more precisely Sitri and Baal.

I actually never got myself much bothered with that, I actually liked the idea, thinking of them as some sort of incarnated AVATARS of those spirits. Something like Izabael DaJinn.

Well, it happens I did a thread thanking Buné for his help and dickery has started. The Sitri guy thinks that:

1 - He is Sitri himself.
2 - Noone can evoke him, for he is incarnated.
3 - Spirits cant be summoned at the same time by different people, they actually send either their lesser demons or (I lol’d hard with this one) ENERGY CLONES of themselves, Naruto lol.
4 - If you do drugs in a working you do bad and that discredits everything.
5 - Goetic Spirits cant stay by your side as familiars for some time. The most they can do is to leave one of their subordinates as familiar, but only if you’re either satanist/luciferianist or work with demons (this one I really didnt get, if Im working with Goetia Im working with demons right?)

I wasnt supposed to be bothered by that though, if he sees things that way and it works for him, what the hell do I have to do with that? But he had to poke me…

My view on evocation of spirits, being goetic, angelic or whatever:

1 - You evoke Archetypes of these spirits, and actualize them through the astral plane down to our mundane reality.

2 - There may be deceased persons in the astral plane that would assume the godhead of these Archetypes and act like them, but they are of a lesser nature considering their purity. I actually saw this with Candomblé spirits, they are persons either deceased or from other planets and stars that assume the godhead of the spirit they want to represent for the Candomblé work.

What are your thoughts on this guys? Cause either these folks are watching too much Naruto or Im actually a dumbass.


#2

They’re other kin.
Actually, for stuff like candomblé, the spirits are actually ancestral spirits elevated to a higher status. So yea, they’re dead, but they aren’t the average run of the mill cemetery spirit. They’re like saints in a way.


#3

I would ask the Sitri guy to do something in the vain of Sitri, see what happens. I mean if he is the goetic he should be able to do what Sitri can do right? Unless him being incarnate somehow prevents this…but if so why would you incarnate, or make a big deal out of it?


#4

If he’s Sitri incarnate, someone would have recognized this by now and attempted to update the Goetia catalog. The only people who could do something like that are people like JSK, Joe Peterson, Frater Thaibon, Lon Milo Duquette and their ilk. Most other magicians would be thought of as nuts if they tried to update the Goetia catalog. The aforementioned magicians are active magician so surely someone as reputable as them would have caught on to it and posted about it on their blog or wrote a book about it; that Sitri can no longer be evoked.

Also, as Orismen said, why the hell would any spirit wish to leave eternity and become human?


#5

@Euoi
Yeah, otherkin is frequent topic there and I like that. But c’mon

On the Candomblé spirits, they arent the Godheads themselves, they assume them by invocation of their powers instead.

@Baphomet
If Sitri cant be evoked, neither Baal can for he is also incarnate. But google around and you see several stories of successful evocations of Baal. Gnosis just did a thread other day about his talking with Baal.

A spirit willing to be reincarnate makes total sense to me. G.O. Mebes talks about something called “Law of point of support” what basically means that the more “anchored” a spirit is to matter, the stronger it gets, but it has to keep this contact with matter balanced with the Archetype plane, otherwise it starts losing its subtle properties.


#6

Well ask why your here then?

Anyway I think that these guys are full of it. As far as I can tell a demon can’t incarnate as a human. A demon can be a component of a humans godform though, so it could be possible sitri could be a component of the guy (probably not) but I don’t think he is sitri.


#7

They are executors of powers, abilities, and information we are enculturated not to be aware of. The established grimoire intelligences are all mnemonic zip codes for places within our universe that would be otherwise difficult to conceptualize. Timothy’s internet/software data library comparison was very good, actually.


#8

Lol you’d have to ask my soul that question.


#9

Incidentally, I’m Fulcanelli.


#10

Put simply. If you can evoke a living person, there’s no reason why you can’t evoke the supposed incarnation of a Goetic Spirit. Heck for fun, why not evoke Stiri and ask it if this fellow really is it?

Now doesn’t that make it easier?


#11

On the Candomblé spirits, they arent the Godheads themselves, they assume them by invocation of their powers instead

What do you mean by this? As far as I am aware, there is only one deity. All the others aren’t gods. The orishas aren’t gods. I also believe that the Exu abd Pomba Gira pop out here as well, correct? I recall Maria Padilha being referred to as “Rainha do Candomblé”, sui I assume there’s something there. But again, they’re not gods. You should probably pm me your answers so I don’t drag this topic.


#12

All the Goetics I’ve worked with have been kind and extremely affable - although I have a broader range of “affable” than maybe your average person, so what I call friendly you might find terrifying. But Sitri is like the Amy Grant of the Goetia. Just very, very pleasant and helpful. He looks, feels, and acts like spirits that are usually labelled angelic. Anyone being a dickish know-all is no relation.


#13

I had similar experience with him Sultitan, he was just willing to put his skills to work. I just felt him a bit excited but maybe it was because I was excited with my goal and he might being getting along with that. Also, I dont compell spirits to obey me by curses and names of god, I just divinate beforehand to know how that spirit may help me and how I can retribute his help, so I never got any major problems with spirits.

And Euoi, I actually made a little mess with the terms. What those spirits invoke are the powers of the Archetypes of Exu, Pomba Gira, etc. If you start talking with them through a medium they can tell about their previous lives as humans and such.


#14

[quote=“Diazin, post:1, topic:3033”]Well, it happens I did a thread thanking Buné for his help and dickery has started. The Sitri guy thinks that:

1 - He is Sitri himself.
2 - Noone can evoke him, for he is incarnated.[/quote]

The idea this guy just IS Sitri and - this is the important bit - is ALL of Sitri in one physical location is utter bullshit.

As anyone who’s ever had the K&C thing with their own Holy Guardian Angel, or Higher Self, or Godself can attest, even we HUMANS exist in more locations than just the phsyical vessel.

I fail to see why Sitri would choose to put all of their energy and consciousness in one person, when even animals have Higher Selves. There are so many paradigms saying there are levels of us as humans, and that provide known and accredited pathworkings or methods to access them, that alone strongly indicates that he’s full of it.

Spirits can create highly aware kind of egregrores or structured entities that you could, at a pinch, label “energy clones” (energetic avatars is probably more accurate) - I’m in a long-term pact and have one of these for that spiritual entity, because the long-term implications of having that entity evoked fully into my presence 24/7 would be too draining for me otherwise, but to be honest I don’t think this is a normal thing.

And I can and do evoke or otherwise interact with the entirety of that being, the energy avatar isn’t a replacement for it.

Pudding.