how much movement is necessary to get in to rapture? i read dancing to what you advised but how vigorously?
No one can answer these things for YOU. You have to find what works for you. But let me give you a spectrum to consider.
Shamanic cultures often use vigorous dancing to get into trance states. Look at and compare a Native American spirit dance, a Vodoun ceremony, a group of pagans joining hands and dancing around the circle, and a Whirling Dervish.
Now I know that Qigong (it means “energy work”, Tai Chi is a kind of Qigong) works and it uses slow gentle flowing movements. Pull up some Tai Chi or Qigong videos on Youtube.
So the answer is … it depends. It depends on what works for YOU.
These are all called excitatory trance methods. They involve a lot of physical activity, often leading to euphoria and physical exhaustion. You can also see them referred to as ecstatic trance methods.
Meditation and other methods of quietly “going within” are called inhibitory trance methods.
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i understand that i need to find what works for me, but from what i understand is during the chanting i needed to raise my heart rate correct?
Don’t even know where you got that, man.
I believe the chanting does two things …
- sends my intention out as a vibration
- gives my conscious mind something to focus on until I go into a deeper state and my conscious mind quiets down
I believe excitatory trance methods (like dancing and twirling around in a circle) do a few things …
- they raise energy that can be directed during the ritual
- they give your conscious mind something to focus on until you go into a deeper state of consciousness and your conscious mind falls away
- they physically exhaust you to the point that your mind enters a deeper state of consciousness
from what it get is when the sigil; flashes that tells you the spirit is in the room with you and getting in to rapture after the sigil flashes that allows you to see it?
Yknow when you say flashing, do you mean that it almost seems to quickly move in a jerky type manner?
I like to think of the sigil as a gateway. When I open the sigil, I’m opening the gateway between me and the spirit.
It doesn’t matter whether the sigil flashes, disappears and reappears, lifts up off the paper as a 3D object, appears traced in blue flames … whatever form it takes is fine.
As far as E.A.'s description of the “Rapture” state, I can’t tell you anything about it because I don’t experience it the same way he does. And that’s ok.
The important thing is that you go into an altered state of consciousness where your conscious mind quiets down. I stop thinking normal thoughts and I’m just very present in the moment.
And then I connect to the spirit and pull it through the gateway to me.
That’s just a mental model to describe what it feels like to me. The truth is … YOU are the gateway.
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the lines seem to disappear then reappear and have a bit of a shine.
Yeah I just saw FraterMagni’s earlier post, his first response in this thread about the sigil moving i.e. “flashing”,
I just noticed that earlier when I was conjuring a Demon, the sigil moved…not in 3D space but it did move for me…
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I’ve had it do a lot of different stuff. It’s fascinating how it will appear to do different things each time … even if it’s the same exact sigil.
In the end, it doesn’t really matter how I perceive it as much as it does something different.
Once I’ve built a solid relationship with a spirit, I don’t even use the sigil anymore. Don’t need it. I just remember the way the spirit feels to me and tune into that.
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yeah im still having trouble with the rapture i can get the room to fog just by going in to trance with out chanting i look at the sigil then i start chanting i do get lite headed but nothing happens should i be thinking of the spirit? i must be missing some thing should i be moving more or rocking more any help would be appreciated.
how do i loss my self in the rapture i really don’t know what that means do i need to end up physically exhaust for the evocation to work ?
Sorry you’re having trouble with this, @anon85346918 … but there’s nothing else I can say to help you. It’s a state of consciousness and you’ll have to figure out how to get yourself there. I’ve tried to help, but you’re obviously having some trouble just letting go.
Maybe this post by Rahnoren will hit it from an angle that helps you …
Advice for New Magicians: Letting Go
The only other thing I would recommend is trying a guided meditation like this one on YouTube to help you get into a deeper trance state …
Silva Life System Deep Relaxation Meditation
I know that guided meditation works because I’ve used it myself.
Once you’ve found your way into that deeper trance state a few times, you should have an easier time getting back to it.
I don’t know what you need to get yourself there, but I know that I don’t need to be physically exhausted. However, physical exhaustion has been used by shamans for thousands of years to induce trance states, so it’s not without merit.
Good luck.
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Okay this is something I suggested to someone else who was trying very hard, forgive the copy-pasta but it might help:
Try a totally different method of magick, but don’t make it “pass fail, oh fuck this time I HAVE to get it right, I’m running out of options” - make it FUN.
I’m going to PM you a simple method of soul travel that I explicitly insist you do AS A GAME - not for results, not for “real” spirit contact. 
For the experience, and the creativity, alone.
Imagine you’re in a fun creative writing class that takes place on a good day for you, nice scenery outside, birds in the trees and water dappling through the windows from the peaceful river outside, and you’re in a large but comfortable hall with people leading this class.
You’ve got a great lunch to look forward to of food that you find most healthy/suitable /whatever, and you’re just being CREATIVE - nothing more.
To get into the mode of character in the story, you’re going to read the exercise I send with a curious mind, but no pressure, as immersed as feels right for you, but half FEELING what the character would do for fun as he (or she) begins the journey into travelling into astral realms.
Give it a go, keep the pressure OFF, do the creative work as instructed but just let the rest flow, don’t stand half outside like a spectator judging your own performance.
Okay going to PM now, get back to me after having a good, relaxed, go playing with this.
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thank you both. i feel im getting closer would you recommend doing the chanting with your eyes closed or should they stay open id o feel the lightheadedness seem to come faster.
It makes me so happy how patient and helpful you are with everyone 
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Try both, see what works best for you, there’s no single correct way because you’re trying to alter your consciousness and the only way to get feedback on what works best is to try it, really. 
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thanks again your post helped. every one has be way more helpful then needed be im just a bit frustrated i have been trouble shooting what i could be doing wrong. now with more practices i can get the room to fog in just a few seconds of siting down then i look at the sigil till it flashes then i start saying the spirits name but nothing, but now im thinking it mite be that im not not doing it in complete silence i have a fan running but i don’t know that mite be the whole problem 
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If the fan distracts you, shut it off, or play some drumming (search Youtube for shamanic drumming) and play that to cover the noise and provide a beat that helps facilitate altering your consciousness.
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i’m definitely going to try. i used the fan in past to drown out any background noise to help with meditation. maybe total silence may work.
when i get to the crossroads i really don’t feel that lightheaded the room is complete filled with fog. or im still not getting it
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