I have a question for E.A. i wanted to know if you would share what you Know about shape shifting. Thanks!
My friendā¦That would either take years of experience,or a sacrifice so large you will not be willing to make itā¦
Titan, defectron is on that path and I am on it as well (to a lesser extent).
You donāt need to sacrifice anything, you TAKE it.
I say we ask Neeros about his ātranscendental vampireā transformation, and then work from there.
And besides, itāll most definitely take years but the stuff you learn along the way will keep you set for a lifetime.
-Sev
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I had actually asked E.A that same question a couple of months ago. He said heād tell you the method through consultation, but he also says that the reward doesnāt justify the amount of work youāre going to put in as well as the pain which I assume is when you actually start shifting.
Depends on the method you use, now I canāt speak from first hand experience, but I can speak as someone who has come very close to doing this.If you can cross the abyss youāll be able to shapeshift in a much shorter amount of time then some other methods. Of course thereās the risk that youāll lose yourself if you donāt take proper precautions.
Yea, Iām pretty sure that the whole pain thing is not as empirical as some would believe. Most of the āpainā itself comes more so from the general bodily retardation that plagues most of humanity; when you arenāt aware of the various anatomical nuances within the body, it can feel āpainfulā. But most transformations that could considered dynamic (i.e. human to animal, human to another human) are often not going to happen in the general manner people are accustomed to seeing on movies (i.e. the Hollywood werewolf).
Maybe I have a really fucked up family, but I thought about this pretty heavily over the last year, and I really did some debating, I even consulted a dead relative on the issue of the sacrifice.
Maybe, itās because Iām really driven to the goals I see as necessary for the planet.
Maybe Iām just really fucked up in the head.
Maybe someone has it coming, according to my dead relativeā¦maybe.
But either way, the possible after effects of such a ritual are enough to make me question whether such power would not come without extreme cost, and I question whether life would be pretty terrible and shitty if you wanted to keep those you love alive.
Knowing what I know, Iād say as Defectron pointed out, crossing the abyss would be your best bet, and even loss of self would perhaps be less traumatic than what you must give up for this. The pain is in regards to the sacrifice, not the shifting. That is my understanding at least. And that is by far, the best solution I have heard so far.
Best of Luck,
-Frater Apotheosis
Depends on what your trying to do, in my case Iām certainly willing to āpay the priceā for what I want, but the universe pretty much told me its not time yet, before I change my perception of the world insuch a drastic way I need to change some stuff in this timeline.
That being said I may try doing this for other purposes in the meantime, explore what things this can be used to do, then when the time does come for me to do what I sought out to, Iāll be more well prepared.
WARNING, MASSIVE REPOST AHEAD. - Just my two cents, based on astral shifting of sorts and mostly theory.
Tl;dr version:
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Maybe it is just astral shifting so powerful that bystanders witness an animal or animal hybrid like in movies.
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Maybe that explains why different cultures across the world have the same myths abouth shapeshifting yet not the same type of creatures, as in no werewolves in South America before the coming of white man or jaguar-men in Europe like since always.
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New addendum: Perhaps it deals with animal possession considering the visible changes that many of you have experienced during spirit possession.
LONG VERSION: Plis donāt curse, I got enough to deal with already!
Well, it is a method of assuming a godform to be honest. Animals have alwas caught are awe and respect, and as humans we have valued anc envied their qualities. As a matter of fact, some martial arts were inspired by the observation of how determined animals fought
What you get with that astral shapeshifting is a rush of both emotion and strength. Confidence too. It is a way t temporarily dillute the barriers of the mind that we have erected during our civilized evolution. This ties well with the explanation of nordic knot magic and the relation between Odin and the berserkers, because he was believed to be able to āuntieā the limitations of the human mind and allow the person to become wild and ferocious.
Take that godās name for instance. Remembering that the ādā was interchangeable with the āthā letter equivalent back then (which is also a common ailment between now a days Germanic and Greek people seeing how we are linguistically related), Odinās named derived from āODRā or āOTHRā, which meant āmad with rageā.
As an example: Ripping someoneās throat with the teeth IS a feat possble within the human parameters, but we seldomly use such a thing even when in the direst of situations. We think of it as too brutal to even consider it when a situation might warrant it. Often, even when it was the only solution.
Same as with cannibalism, that while a viable option for nutrition under certain precautions, we find it as a brutal thing to butcher our fellow man for meat. Yet many of those shy on such thing donāt see the evil morality of murdering someone for his valuables! Why? Because, again, too ābrutalā. As if it wasnāt brutal enough already to pump a knife into someoneās gut for his wallet, right?
That is what astral shapeshifting allows. The break of those barriers, and the strengthening of the body.
I do state a general warning for those who would reach into their inner animal though: Beware because at times you might lose control. No, not that bullshit of āhurr durr possession da Debul made me doo it yer Honorā¦!ā But more of a situation where your efficiency as a killer might be frowned upon by your local laws, even if REALISTICALLY the situation called for nothing less.
This are my experiences with that kind shapeshifting, which by the way are done by the same technique as assuming a godform. Yes, I visualize taking that shape, or see myself in a third person view assuming the shape, and at times I use some keywords that, in my self-conviction, attune me to the brutal nature that sleeps in us all:
NOTE: These things happen by the practice of assuming animalistic shapes before hand, for days What happens is that slowly builds irritable character and overall good health (sturdiness Iād say). It wonāt make your muscles grow noticeably, but Iāve managed to bend an iron piece of an armchair I was trying to fix out of the sheer bad mood.
The following symptoms have happened under a stressful situation or one where, as I say before, by practise I manage to trigger.
- Common sensations experimented DURING stress: Cold rush and feeling similar to wading through muddy waters, foggy eyesight / blndness in one eye, distorted hearing, shivering, inability to speak properly (intense drooling and / or locked jaw). At times whistling sounds or histerical giggling (not actual laughter, but the closest thing is the constant repetition of a high-pitched sound, like ātitititititiā).
Also, and very important, is the false sensation of time going very slow, as well as the reactions of other people, and when hitting someone / performing a physical movement, it feels as if you are never doing it strongly enough. Punch a person repeatedly in the face and you feel your hand is heavier and sofiter each time, and you do feel like you are simply āpawingā the other personās face each time softer.
Sometimes you feel utterly ashamed of what youāre doing for some reason.
Usually two hours later after this sort of trance I feel exhultant, chatty, friendly, capable of doing anything I couldnāt do before. Then, it is tiredness, and at times nightmares. No common nightmares with the usual themes like prosecution or violence, mind you, idiotic but scary dreams. They should not be scary by content, but they are due to the strange emotions felt during them.
I once dreamt of laying there on my bed, eeing myself in third person, and the days going by n the background of my balcony, as if someone was speeding the cycles in such way that night and day wer separated by ten seconds maybe. I woke up about 6 hours later. Feeling very tired and worn out for up to 2 days afterwards.
- Associated risks of indulging too often: Muscular spasms, twitchyness of hands, involuntary movements and sudden bursts of rage (only the feeling, not flipping your table over and not knowing why) and discontent tend to happen during my life.
At days I am happy, other days Iāll find myself on the verge of shouting at loved ones for the smallest of transgressions, and would end up picking fights that usually start by an argument on my behalf.
Depression mixed with confusion. Knowing that you arenāt happy about some things in your life but be too stupid that moment to do more than just sit half-naked on the bed looking at your own stupid reflection in the mirror
Sleeplessness and waking up agitated enough that I take my sudden frustratrion with the furniture to points that a normal person would have stopped due to the pain; once couldnāt stop punching the door repeatedly and hitting some metallic shelves. Fists trembled after that, the pain went away too fast, went to sleep.
I once felt asleep moments before the mailman merely knocked on my door. Well I hate to admit it, but I sprung to my feet and nearly jumped over a chair and then tried to climb atop of the piano in order to jump the low wall between me and the door.
I have also felt the increase of my usual worries. Not believing the neighbor is going to murder me in my sleep, but more like general scenarios of home entry, robbery or assault.
Preemptive thoughtfulness slowly becomes full paranoia to the point that when I buy something at a long time friendās weaponstore and he has to retrieve it from his basement, I start to think heās taking so long because of reporting my recent buy to the authorities (even when it is completely legal and, by our laws, he is obliged to!). The difference is that while I know it is perfectly normal for him to do so, I am suddenly convinced that he is doing so by through a ham radio instead of, well, book keeping, when clearly it isnāt happening.
But we all know the risks. Nothing that a strong will cannot defeat, yet I wanted to warn you.
Now, for some experiences:
- 14 years of age, impossible odds: Long story short, walking the dog with parents, someone is not very happy about it, punches my father in the face. I become very agitated, attempt to push said person (some muscled skinhead of about 25-30 years), and then I āwakeā up.
He is unconscious on the ground, and his friends (of similar build and angry disposition towards people) are just standing there like idiots, staring, when they could have easily beaten my sorry ass senseless with all the pipework that was laying around next to some construction site.
No one told me what happened except my mother, which was me lifting that dude off the ground, laying hm down, and simply pummeling the everloving life out of his chest. Apparently he went to the hospital, and was released a week later. Then people said he had left the country because he was left in a very bad shape and that he couldnāt walk.
The fight ended when on of his friends, who was a huge monster of a man, pulled me off him and hugged me trying to tell me that all was fine.
How could a 14 year old kiddo defeat some twenty-something, ripped dude with a long history of violence as his similarly inclided friends stood too stupified to react? No idea. All I know is that I had begun to experiment with astral shifting some time ago, from age 12, finding it āfunnyā to adopt shapes of video game characters according to the situation.
- High-school bully and lifting someone off the ground with one hand: As the title implies, I got the jump on some asshat who made my life miserable, and instead of playing it careful, I simply went up to him, grabbed him by the throat, and I THOUGHT I was hitting him. Problem is the āsceneā was changing for me too fast to catch pace of my own actions.
It began with me approaching and grabbing his throat, and then all of a sudden I am on a garden, kicking him, scene changes again and I am trying to speak with someone whose face I cannot recognize, and then bam, I am in the car with my father.
I beat him in front of the directorās office, which was always full of people, and next to a parking lot were other parents are waiting for their kids. No one intervened.
What bothered me was my father saying that 1) he was too ashamed and scared to try to stop me and that 2) I was holding him IN THE AIR by the throat but using just one hand. I smell bullshit, because my wrist has no muscle and I seriously doubt I could lift someone in that fashion, but my father isnāt a very imaginative person to have thought of that. Plus, he didnāt want to talk to me for a few days until I explained it was a matter of revenge, not just me being an asshole to someone random.
His words were āyou lifted him off the ground like he was a rabbit, and then I hid behind the steering wheel so that no one could see me and think I am your dad!ā.
As I stated before, this was during a time I kept doing the astral shapeshifts. The moment of this situation was around 17 years of age.
- Bad knee, lots of stairs: I couldnt walk up a flight of stairs so I calmed, and pronounced internally certain triggering phrases. I open my eyes and I am simply not anymore āhereā, but under the shape of what you would call a āwereboarā. Half lower body is biped but with the ugly, squat hind of a boar (albeit matching more or less my physical dimensions). Upper body is human, head is that of a leering, angry boar. I can even see the small details of beady, bloodshot eyes and snarling angry and surprised expression I think a boar would have when fighting for its life.
I got this sudden urge to fight the pain in the most counterproductive way. Knee hurts when I move? Well run up the stairs at the highest speed possible disregarding the risks of (quite shamefully) tumble back down and break my neck.
Well I reached the end of the stairs and when I did I had the urge to scream and shout, as to glorify my ābigā victory. Knee didnāt hurt at all, and it kept getting better! Of course I restrained myself from yelling around like (coincidentally) a mad pig. After all I was there to deliver some documents. Canāt have people seeing the unbound part of ourselves, can we?
And now for the part you have probably been waiting:
How the heck do I astral shapeshift? Now pardon my ignorance, I consider this the same as assuming a god form, so I visualize it happening in my mind.
I tend to start slowly, not imagining a violent transformation, but as a gradual process with extrem detail. The typical, close eyes, breathe deeply, let imagination go wild and imagine the process.
In the same way that reading about a spirit, the myths related to it, and gazing upon its sigil reinforce a bond between the magician and the evokation that will happen, one should surround by fetishes that remind him/her of the change wishing to happen.
For me I dislike assuming the shape of a werewolf because it isnāt ābrutalā enough for me. I find that the shape of an angry, hybrid boar-like creaure is far more animalistic in its intent.
Why? Because the boar is a base, egoistic creature who will gore intruders at the slightest provocationeven when the odds are against it. That suicidal violence appeals more to my inner nature rather that the (usually associated) predatory violence that a wolf enacts.
Maybe because I am not thrilled by the excessive and useless killing that wolves are known to do. Maybe because, in my mind, I associate the murderous nature of a wolf as the kind of sadism that a criminal would enact upon a helpless victim (in his case the sheep), finding it less palatable as the self-harming butchery that a wild pig can do even when deathly wounded.
That means of course that you should first find an animal you associate yourself with, or one in which you find some worhty qualities. Of course the wolf and the boar are free of such assumptions, neither the first is an evil thing nor the second one a heroic idiot. They are simply animals and do what animals do.
But what truly matters is which lays in the magicianās mind.
That is why, having such ideas in mind, I looked into the etymology of the word āboarā, finding that it stems from old Germanic tongue, and from a word designated not to name the actual animal, but people with boar-like qualities: Bairaz.
Feels exotic. Feels powerful. Any Chaos Magician should tell you it is good to bypass the mental state of āmaterial thoughtā straight into the magickal mindset.
Yet this word was used for generations, long time ago, and it is ancient and powerful for that reason. That is why I hold my hands above my head as if holding a helm and lower it downwards as I say āI AM the Bairaz, I am a Bairazā.
The rest, is history. Pardon for the long post but there was no other way I couldāve shorten it.
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I have both thought about physical transformation, as well as consulted spirits regarding it, but ultimately any time you want to use spiritual power to effect your physical life, especially when wanting to actually change a psychical thing by transforming itā¦ it is going to take more power than you would normally be able to work with.
It is possible to attain the power necessary, but it may take a long time of commitment to make it happen. There are two ways to do this, as Iāve been told. 1. the āgoodā way, work incredibly hard and hope it pays off, it may take years, maybe not, nothing is guaranteed. 2. the ābadā path, it is possible to work with malicious spirits who will make deals with you to get you what you want. But, there are two consequences to this: first you tie into their power, so anything you do from that point on, will result in malicious backlash in your life from them. Secondly, the greater the power needed, the bigger the consequences from them. People think of this as a sacrifice. But the TRUTH is that these malicious beings just want to see you suffer. And this is a way for them to entrap you in their malicious cycle.
Even doing this does require some spiritual connection though. The law of free will pervades everything.
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DISCLAIMER: None of the followings ideas have been personally tested but I mainly drag them as ideas that stem from the general and vague idea of magick.
Dudes, not to be a buzzkill, but I kinda thought of this:
- Why does anyone ever want to learn to shape and alter their physical body?
For power and power-related reasons, the most obvious being either aggression or exploration. Who wouldnāt want to be able to pull someone annoyingās head clean off their shoulders? Or who of us hasnāt thought of turning into a giant eagle or shark and go check what lies up and down there, where not even modern tech allows us?
I am totally sure that this ability would help us in many aspects of our lives, but this leads to question #2
- Is it really our final goal or the means and tools to a totally different end?
Sure gaining strength and speed above human levels is fancy, but wouldnāt these mundane troubles be solved easier than say becomeing an ogre-like furry creature of the blackest nightmares?
I mean, dudes, say you want to tear down a wall in your home. Would you pump iron and train daily for months until you can punch through it? Not really, right? Youād probably get a sledgehammer and do the job.
But why use a sledgehammer and take many hours of pounding at the wall when you can use a pneumatic jackhammer? Or, if you are as mad as I am, haphazardly placed explosive charges with absolutely no care for my neighbors?
EFFICIENCY IS THE KEYWORD HERE (sorry for leading you on). Which leads to a simple answer: ASTRAL TRAVEL.
As far as Iāve read almost in every book that I come across, most of the awesome feats of magick found in fiction and Hollywood are performed by astral travel to some degree.
Wanna move objects? Disembody your hand, or yourself, reach to it and interact.
Wanna shake and spook someone? Pop in unannounced next to their ear and whisper their full name.
Wanna take matters into your own (astral) hands rather than take a good time using curses and hexes? Go right there and pull their scrotum down to their ankles until they are more handbag than human.
Not to mention the applications of actual exploration! They donāt call it astral TRAVEL for a reason, am I right? 
So by all means, brethren, if the actual change of your physical is your goal, by all means I wish you the best (please post a video!). But if your intentions can be summed up in the previously mentioned questions? I guess popping out of our bodies and following up would be the most efficient method.
Because seriously, you canāt just pull someoneās pants down in plain view of his peers and get away with it if youāre a furry lunk of a monster!
I too wonder at shapeshiting into an animal - a thing thatās treated as property with no rights, able to be shot on sightā¦ Iām more interested in shapeshifting into different people who will get different reactions from the world. Powerful ways of presenting myself to get what I want, through posture, subtle signals in clothing, etc.
Had some good successes with that over the years, and I can always learn more - but getting back to changing into a beastie by complex and lengthy occult rituals?
Well, just look at what the ordinary human body is capable of:
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Exactly, LadyEva! Not to brag but there is a reason we humans are shaped and built in expressions of the number 5, a number we occultists can agree that represents spiritual and physical plenitude and perfection!
We have 5 fingers in each hand, we have five limbs (counting the head, I hear some people do have a sixth appendage that I wonāt go into detail LOL), just as the most famous symbol for Magick, the pentagram!
We are the dominant species of this world after all (not saying that it gives us the right to treat animals like we do, though).
But in truth and as I posted before, we seek shape shifting for forceful reasons because it is through the shape of the beast that we access beastly feats, mostly because through modern education and societal conditioning we have been lead to believe in the necessity of divorcing our ācivilizedā minds from all the violent and nasty impulses.
There is the real obsession with becoming a beast. We admire certain aspects of certain animals because it resonates with a forgotten, or should I say hidden and repressed, side of us. And what is Magick but self-discovery?
I seriously do not wish to be a cheeky buzzkill, but if it is raw physical power you, my kin, seek? You gotta check the Greek myths regarding Maenads and our (back then) favorite hobby: Sparagmos!
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparagmos]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparagmos[/url]
To be brief: Ritualistic behavior where a sacrificial victim (animal or otherwise) would be violently dismembered, alive, with no other tool than oneās bare hands, usually by participants of a Dionisiac cult. And we all known what was Dionysus (Bacchus to the Romans) known for, right?
Enter a violent trance where there is no other thought but the most efficient and brutal elimination of your enemy, and your strength will increase fivefold. Shed the assumed limits of what is proper behaviour and your strength will skyrocket. It is no different that the practices of the well known Nordic berserkers.
You become a beast by allowing yourself to become one, and there is absolutely no need to actually change your shape. Youāre just being what youāve always been.
Sure gaining strength and speed above human levels is fancy, but wouldn't these mundane troubles be solved easier than say becomeing an ogre-like furry creature of the blackest nightmares?
No need to transform to vastly exceed what even normal people and scientists consider possible, the right training can give you incredible strenght speed power and endurance by āchangingā the muscles and bones, and no need to bulk up to hulkish proportions if you get the balance right for you. Combine that with mentally priming the synapses and muscles and focusing your energy as well, you can get great results in a relatively short period.
[quote=ā333, post:13, topic:1843ā]Exactly, LadyEva! Not to brag but there is a reason we humans are shaped and built in expressions of the number 5, a number we occultists can agree that represents spiritual and physical plenitude and perfection!
We have 5 fingers in each hand, we have five limbs (counting the head, I hear some people do have a sixth appendage that I wonāt go into detail LOL), just as the most famous symbol for Magick, the pentagram![/quote]
Iām quite interested in this stuff at the moment - the famous pentagram of Venus: https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2014/01/04/the-pentagram-of-venus/
You become a beast by allowing yourself to become one, and there is absolutely no need to actually change your shape. You're just being what you've always been.Exactly.
You can put a man in makeup and a skirt, but it wonāt automatically turn him into a woman:
