Perhaps This Forum Could Focus More On Work

General Discussion
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For a while now, it appears that there have been an increasing amount of philosophical wars going on here, and although that has always been the case, it appears to be in larger concentration than others. Perhaps it is that these debates are the most commented threads (usually stemming from a thread that wasn’t even meant to be a debate area, like a newbie question), or that I was ignorant of these posts before, but the concentration of these threads seems to be a lot more numerous, and a lot more pronounced than before.

Speaking as a primary agitator and participant of these types of threads, I am wondering why it is that we even spend our time on them. I figure that this forum was originally meant for learning, advancement, and was supposed to stand out as a place where a lot of the petty quarrels that magicians find themselves in were trounced. Yet, when looking at these debates, especially the ones where I am speaking the most and loudest, I find that I certainly didn’t learn a single thing, and that I just spent useful time on the useless activity of chest-puffing. It is never my intention to do so, but that is what ends up going down, and I’m not confident that these threads that these debates stem from actually serve to help out the OPs of those particular threads.

I’m not going to debate any of those arguments I had, as I could probably write novels on each particular point where I would point out the flaws on both sides, including my own. But the worst part of it is that these philosophical debates actually do nothing to point out action that can be taken by a magician, what a person can do to get their shit together. Talks of who or what YHWH is, whether Satan is the prime God, whether Abaddon likes wearing a tutu on Saturday nights… it has nothing to do with the actual steps to empowerent that a person can take. I could talk about the nature of reality all day, and yet it wouldn’t do a thing to increase my power, and especially wouldn’t help someone learn how to increase theirs. You know, it might help them, if only that they would be poised to get off the internet because the banter they are hearing is not worth their time.

We do got folks who make a consistent habit of only talking about things they are experiencing in real time like SVE’s stuff. I’m pretty sure that he could insert his 2 cents about what he feels is right, but rather he just posts straight up results and discovered entities from his work. Likewise, I don’t think there has been a debate garnered around his stuff; I haven’t seen an inflated ego battle revolve around anything he post. If we could switch the focus towards action-based things, and information based solely on real-time stuff gained from that, then folks would have a lot less room to even care to debate shit. I’m not saying there would be no more debating ever, but at least folks could come here and actually gain practice-based info that comes from fellow magicians work, rather than quoting philosophers, “holy” books, or historical “facts”, all of which have nothing to do with our own personal experiences.

As a primary agitator, I’m saying that the shit has got to end. Not for any lovey-dovey reasons, but because this mode of senseless and narrow theorizing, boasting, and philosophizing is not really doing shit to empower at least a great deal of folks here. I know I sure as hell have gotten nothing from it, and debating over messages is somewhat silly anyway, as the element of direct conversation is eliminated with this form of debate. This is just how I feel about it, and I know some people say they have learned stuff from it. But man, I’m not seeing any power in it at all, and in the example of personal-practiced-based threads, there is far more value in that.

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On second thoughts I’m removing my reply to this.

Good luck to you in trying to figure out how to change a reality whose nature and workings you refuse to even understand.

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I don’t know why you posted, as that comment clearly has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I’m talking about strictly practice and technique-based results, so that’s all I’m referring to. I don’t know why you would comment considering that “nature and workings” has nothing to do with what I was saying, making assumptions based on a small interaction over the internet. Was that comment even worth the time, no matter how small it was… it’s all good though. Ain’t my housework to deal with

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It’s sad. I know of several magicians who have left the forum and have had some mind blowing results in their workings. I get to hear about it and learn from them because I stay connected to them. But it makes me wonder how many others do I not get to hear and learn from because they decided not to share their personal success thanks to ridicule on this forum?

How many have changed their life but don’t want to share how and why because they know someone will label them a “Mental Masturbator” How many great forum members have we lost?

Magic is personal, everyone must walk their own path. Questioning someone because you think they might have gone a little off is ok. Telling someone that there is no way they actually evoked Belial because their description of him and his message is not what you expected, or is different than what your order or book teaches is not ok. In time they will find out if they are full of it or not, then they will learn from it.

1 Like
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I must admit that The1gza is correct in this aspect. As of late I’ve been reading several topics on the philisophical aspects of ‘the practice’ as opposed to technique and results. Sure, a basic understanding of how ‘it all works’ is good to know yet does that help in your own magical workings and rituals? Does it provided insight to whether or not your result will be successful? Who is to say except the practitioner themselves.
I think that all of us are responsible for steering this forum more towards a pragmatic path.

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[quote=“Orismen, post:4, topic:2316”]It’s sad. I know of several magicians who have left the forum and have had some mind blowing results in their workings. I get to hear about it and learn from them because I stay connected to them. But it makes me wonder how many others do I not get to hear and learn from because they decided not to share their personal success thanks to ridicule on this forum?

How many have changed their life but don’t want to share how and why because they know someone will label them a “Mental Masturbator” How many great forum members have we lost?

Magic is personal, everyone must walk their own path. Questioning someone because you think they might have gone a little off is ok. Telling someone that there is no way they actually evoked Belial because their description of him and his message is not what you expected, or is different than what your order or book teaches is not ok. In time they will find out if they are full of it or not, then they will learn from it.[/quote]

Oh I agree with this 100%.

It seems on this forum we have a small minority of ‘elitists’ who actually spend more time bashing E.A.'s methods, his customers, and those that want to learn, than contributing their ‘oh so masterful’ knowledge to the purpose of ascent and results, the reason most of us are here.

Instead we get comments akin to 5y/o’s fighting at the schoolyard: “I know but I’m not telling, you’re stupid, you’re never going anywhere, my method is the only one that works”, blah blah blah blah fucking blah. Seriously, join the Priesthood, because people like this sound just as bad, if not worse than some brainwashed Christian who ‘knows’ you’re going to hell if you don’t swallow his bullshit hook, line, and sinker.

As a matter of fact, I’ve been learning more about E.A’s methods and those who are getting results from other occult forums besides this one. It seems at other places people actually HELP(God forbid!) instead of spending time berating the neophytes with harsh, cold, eristic speech that’s akin to a retarded, autistic, one eyed donkey mad he hasn’t gotten the nightly carrot up his ass.

I’d venture the ‘elitists’ don’t even particularly use E.A’s methods anyway, but since they were likely banned from every other forum on the internet, the trolls gathered at a new location, until the moderators figure out that it’s bad for business, and ban them again anyway.

I press on everyday, I learn everyday, I’m no ‘master mage’ as some of the self-proclaimed, self-stylized messiahs we have posting here, but one thing I’m not, is stupid.

People are wanting to learn, experiment, and press forward, and I’d venture they don’t particularly feel like being berated by angry stepchildren with expanded vocabulary’s from the grand order of the retarded stepchild.

It’s a shame, the one guy who has taught me more about magick than anyone in my life is probably losing business over the bullshit that goes on at his own forum.

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On the bright side though I would like to thank all those who have questioned me about my contacts with spirits. It forced me to reevaluate what I was taught and come up with better questions for them. One member questioned something I posted about Belial which lead to me asking deeper questions which lead to a deeper gnosis.

I guess I am saying as long as the criticism is constructive; bring it on!

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Gnosis pretty much just said everything I was thinking and have been saying on the forum. Hell, despite my rants, at the end of it all, I always point out that it is my perspective, and I would honestly like to see something other than my perspective come forth. But whenever it’s a philosophy involved, folks who have clearly not mastered reality believe it makes sense to start telling, “The real truth” about it, things that many of us have already heard and surmised as perhaps limited or maybe even practically untrue in a variety of situations.

But since philosophies have huge fan bases, I’m not really hating on committing to one. What becomes a problem is when that commitment becomes invasive and debilitating to a community of folks here. I could write hundreds of pages why a particular person’s counterpoint to mine is a complete sham, but what the hell does that even do? It more than likely won’t change that person’s mind for the better, or else they wouldn’t be boasting the superiority of their thoughts. Moreover, I have never seen an immutable logic, and even if mine was not debateable to anyone I am debating with, I could logic the stupidity of any statement I make in no time flat.

So it’s pointless, especially when we got folks like SVE who has contributed knowledge of Sastan’s scope of influence that would not be available otherwise. I mean, he’s posted the discovery of about 2-or 3 entities I never heard anything about and the capabilities of several pre-known entities that I would’ve never guess those entities possessed.

Orismen got me to really consider Hekate, which put me through one of the most surreal and powerful experiences in my life. Bitterroot, who left for many of the reasons that Gnosis stated, was about to drop some serious stuff on the topic of Tantric Yoga from the standpoint of magick, and everything he did post was pretty spot-on and based in technique, along with introducing me to Satyananda’s books, in which one volume is dedicated to evocation. That’s just to name some, I know there are more posts, but in recent times they are often overshadowed by aimless, and useless banter.

So you know, again as someone who got caught in these philosophical debates, it’s gotta die or this forum will be just another one of “those-type of forums.” I feel like if anyone was an authority on anything about life, we would not be here trying to learn as much as we are trying to learn.

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ditto from me. let’s get this forum back on track, and support E.A. and the BALG team et.al. structure a first rate forum that helps everyone evolve thier practice. FYI - I bought the evocation course and am deeply grateful for the content and found it worth every penny. can’t wait for more. keep up the very good work.

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A small thing I wish to add. A very small thing.

E.A’s movement, E.A’s forum was always something I saw as a basis for action. His methodology always pointed towards action, action and then results. When I come here, what I hope to do is to learn from others and understand such action and results so I may better myself for years of solo experimenting would await in the converse.

That is why, I do feel its a pity I never had the chance to make contact with those who have results but already left the forum.

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Most of the bullshit stems from ego. I have a motto when it comes to places like this. “Get in, get what I need, then get the fuck out”

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Yeah seems like a pretty good policy to have.

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While I agree with the sentiment of this thread you’ll see a serious lack of discussion when one does post their experiences or results is it because not enough experienced people participate? Is it because people are scared to share result for fear of mockery? So I guess what I’m saying is its everyone’s responsibility to make a forum what it is. If you think a forum is lacking then do something about it, you can always post your results or experiences, look at Orismen even when he’s questioned or his results are made a mockery of he keeps on doing his thing.

We can blame elitism or close minded behavior or whatever for running off posters but that was their choice, those who stick around that’s their choice as well. I hated to see guys like Soundwave and Tiberius James go or guys like Kitari and RedCircle not come around as often but that’s the nature of forums and the internet.

If you want to talk about philosophy or paradigms go ahead, if you want to talk about results from a method or your own experiences pathworking do so. If a subject doesn’t interest you then don’t comment, if you think something is incorrect say so.

I’m all for everybody getting along but if someone is posting erroneous material and everyone just wants to say there is no right or wrong answers in magick or reality or whatever so we can all get along then what’s the point of a discussion? If you can’t handle having your ideas and thoughts challenged don’t post. This is just a forum, it doesn’t effect your reality anymore than you allow it to.

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Yeah, they’re like the candy bars when you know you should be eating your greens - far easier to lay some epic slapdown (or whatever the kids call it! lol) on some guy who thinks reality is ABC, when you know it’s XYZ and have the ten-thousand year-old scripture or whatever the fuck to prove it.

I joined here and yakked a fair amount and mea culpa on trotting out my own beliefs, however - results count. Not what kind of buttplug or compass or fucking cookie we personally think is The Shit™ !

I just posted some technique that’s been working for me, will swing by in a week or so if anyone has questions - I’m also totally open to the possibility it just doesn’t work and I was heading off down the wrong track there.

I think the philosophy should stick to, “I did this, and it was because I believed this, and that - I think - made it work.”

Anything else is raping the operator’s right to freedom of mind because it implies that only GOOD (defined as the poster chooses) people get results, which is bullshit - because if people whose philosophies etc we didn’t like, DIDN’T have power (magick/mundane) then we’d not be having this conversation in the first place.

My 2¢.

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I agree 100% for sure.When I joined this forum I received so much helpful advice that actually started getting me off the ground with my ascent.
Now when I ask a question or share an experience I get a whole lot of posts of dudes mesuring their dicks.
And by the way you only have to messure it once to find out how big it is.

I would like to say thanks to all the great members who continue to share,teach,and LISTEN to mine and everyone else’s questions/experiences.
You guys fuckin rock.

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I was thinking some more about this stuff, btw sorry for the sweariness above, I’d had a very long night’s work on a project before logging in and was exercising less self-censorship than I should have been - anyway I think part of the drive to discuss philosophies etc comes from the normal need to explain what drives us to do the things we do, and to become the people we’ve become, in hopes of reaching out to other people and making some connection at a deeper level?

Although I disagree strongly with some of the stuff some members have posted, I think we’re all after the same thing - enough power to make our world turn out the way we want it, whether that’s through entirely personal empowerment, such that reality becomes almost a toy, or whether it’s through seeing social changes that benefit the groups we feel we identify with and care about.

This can be quite a lonely path, even for those of us blessed with supportive spouses, friends etc, because the areas we go into are, like the moment of death, just our own soul against the cosmos and its otherworldly inhabitants, so maybe on some threads, we get drawn into these debates because we want to hear the echo of a familiar like-minded soul travelling alongside us?

If someone posts that they think, believe and value the exact same things as us, that’s the closest we’re going to get to achieving a sense of having a travelling companion.

It’s the one thing all conventional religion offers, a sense of “all in it together” and a place to hear from people facing the same challenges - we don’t have so much of that, even the name of this website might raise a chuckle from the “normal” people in our lives, so maybe that’s why the temptation to find (or create through persuasive argument) a consensus with a group of people on here is so compelling?

Anyway I just feel that there may be more this than purely pissing contests about who’s “right” - maybe I’m being optimistic, but maybe if my description of that need seems to strike a chord with anyone else here, there may be other ways to get it met so there’s more work, and less debate, on the forums.