Paul the octopus

so, has anyone tried animal divination paul the octopus style? i would assume that the owner of paul is an occultist because lets be honest, who else would think of doing that with an octopus (which begs the question, was he using paul as a way to divine the games or was he actively causing his teams to win via octopus? with all the attention he got the energy must’ve been immense).

The Ancient Romans used to divine by shoving chickens into a sacred space,and some corn and watching the way they moved around.I can’t remember which temples,or cults did this,though.

Animal-related divination is a common thing,as I practice Ornithomancy frequently,but forcing the animals into a spot and letting them do stuff,is not a new idea,but isn’t practiced very often these days.

We’ve discussed Paul before,though.And we noticed that many of his predictions were in favor of his homeland of Germany,so some hypothesized that he wasn’t merely predicting the outcome,he may have even been manipulating them.

Which brings us to the incredibly fascinating topic of animals using magic,which is actually very interesting since we seldom imagine them as using magic,often forgetting that we too are animals.

I know crows use magic.They make tools,and even toys.I know dogs use magic,standing in front of a door,when they want to go for a walk,kind of like sympathetic magic.And I’m sure that animalistic magic is highly survival-based,and when exploring my samsaric predatory consciousnesses,I felt less like a human hunter and more like an animal,hunting so there’s certainly something there.

Taking the German history of weird-ass national leaders to a new extreme! ;o)

(Sorry, couldn’t resist that…)

There’s a lot of research on animal sentience, some of it indicates animals think in terms of images, which is a very magickal thing to do, and I’m convinced they visualise and operate a form of “law of attraction” - and that our ancestors who drew successful hunts on cave walls were projecting from their animal-mind heritage of seeing the desired outcome, and NOT being led from their advanced intellect to do something completely new.

IIRC the research indicates that animals thinking in terms of chains of visualisation, and other sensory input (cause > effect) is how it’s possible to train them, so when my dog sees the coat I wear for walks, he doesn’t stop and analyse it, he just goes into the chain of behaviour that starts with “putting coat on” and ends in “WALKIES!” - when cats hear the can opener, they don’t stop and wonder what it means this time, it means DINNER… etc…

Whoa! Fascinating indeed. I’ve never considered the magical potential of live animals used in magical rituals, and in that context, animal sacrifice makes a lot more sense.

My grandmother had a cat which adopted a weird feeding ritual. The first time she brought it home and opened a can of food, it jumped on the counter, knocked some things over, banged into other things, general chaos. Then the cat started duplicating that chaotic chain of events every single time she fed it. Superstitious if not magical.

Well the animal would be thinking “I hate and fear you and want you to stop/fail in killing me/die yourself” so actually I’d say it’s often contrary to magick, it’s interesting to me that it’s primarily poorer areas that have a focus on animal sacrifice, and yes I am of the mindset that the proof of magick is in the situation of the people who practice it the most.

Sacrificing a human who’s in some way agreed to be sacrificed seems to be the best route, based on observation and also the old concept that a willing sacrifice wouldn’t have any resistence or desire for you to fail.

As a counterpoint, my experience is that animals are perfectly able to be willing sacrifices - they are no less capable in this regard than humans. At least in the remaining hunter-gatherer traditions (I can only speak experientially of Indo-European and American Indian derivations), many rites of the hunt itself are aimed at making contact with an animal spirit and making a pact for a successful hunt. Of course, there are conditions and ritual actions required on the sacrifice’s (on the hunted’s) part from a responsible hunter, but I personally have always hunted willing prey in this sense, to do otherwise would be about as distasteful to me personally as eating a hot dog or frolicking in an oil spill.

With this kind of knowledge ‘in the background’, I say that I absolutely believe animals capable of consenting to sacrifice - sure, most…hmm, ‘information’…about animal sacrifice is laughable and sensationalist (like many other topics within the occult) but what bearing has that upon the real deal?

Relevant to both animal and human sacrifice, and this concept of ‘sacred hunt’, there is a ritual in which one participant agrees to possession by the ‘spirit of the hunted’ and then flees through the woods of the ritual site. The other participants take on the roles of hunters and pursue the prey, with both parties learning quite a lot about the sacred agreements between man and beast that apparently established the phenomenon of hunting, as well as achieving greater respect for and empathy with the prey.

Worth a try, maybe?

I’m told (UPG alert) that this can be affected by what happens to their body afterwards, don’t anyone take this as how Things Are but I’m told that if a human eats their flesh, or (as pets) they get to perform some good act for a human, even just company and affection, they get some kind of payback for that.

But I also know a lot of humans just want the smallest bit of permission to take out their angst on an animal, and that’s low-level psychopathology with no real merits IMO.

[quote=“Claidheam, post:7, topic:6845”]As a counterpoint, my experience is that animals are perfectly able to be willing sacrifices - they are no less capable in this regard than humans. At least in the remaining hunter-gatherer traditions (I can only speak experientially of Indo-European and American Indian derivations), many rites of the hunt itself are aimed at making contact with an animal spirit and making a pact for a successful hunt. Of course, there are conditions and ritual actions required on the sacrifice’s (on the hunted’s) part from a responsible hunter, but I personally have always hunted willing prey in this sense, to do otherwise would be about as distasteful to me personally as eating a hot dog or frolicking in an oil spill.

With this kind of knowledge ‘in the background’, I say that I absolutely believe animals capable of consenting to sacrifice - sure, most…hmm, ‘information’…about animal sacrifice is laughable and sensationalist (like many other tcan cs within the occult) but what bearing has that upon the real deal?

Relevant to both animal and human sacrifice, and this concept of ‘sacred hunt’, there is a ritual in which one participant agrees to possession by the ‘spirit of the hunted’ and then flees through the woods of the ritual site. The other participants take on the roles of hunters and pursue the prey, with both parties learning quite a lot about the sacred agreements between man and beast that apparently established the phenomenon of hunting, as well as achieving greater respect for and empathy with the prey.

Worth a try, maybe?[/quote]

There are two main reasons you would assume the spirit form of the hunted. The first one is merely a Symbolic Sacrifice to either End a certain aspect of your life, another is a symbolic sacrifice to likewise in a sort of weird divination bring you closer to Death like consciousness so you can scout out any of your blessings you came into this life with for example. So Death or being hunted is the symbolic sacrifice for a number of endeavors. The second reason is so you can find your enemy early, where you are in essence doing a sort of Reverse Stalking.

Now of course, when calling upon the spirits of hunters and death, such hunters may not know this, whereas only ones Guardian Angel would know the real deal. The hunt can be literal and/or symbolic as its dependent not just on Intent, but ones desire and ones True Will, which can ultimately only be known through ones Guardian Angel if you are calling upon such spirits as it is a very intimate process.

This has been your experience, then, of the ritual?

I dont sacrifice or uze actual living animals. I rather use shaman masks, such as that involving Octopus or even Squid Tentacles this depends on the type of shaman mask and purpose. Yes that is my experience of the ritual. Octopus or Squid tentacles can be symbollically equated with the Pathways Power Travels of “Divine Manifestation (Divination)”

Please forgive me, I could not tell whether you spoke from experience or fiction. I’m glad, then, that you’ll be able to help me: considering the end result, why on earth does the initial glamour crop up in the first damned place?

My experience of the ritual is my own self-created ritual utilizing the octopus archetype as a Mask. You can use your imagination as to why this would be useful as a shamans mask. I did not follow a format I read out of any website or book, but have been using variants of this for the past few years after finding it as an ally dream walking. As for your question on the initial glamour I do not entirely follow. Glamours are useful for alot of different things, even the not so obvious uses. I know it doesnt sound helpful but my experience is wearing shaman masks andndoing my own natural divinations for my own purposes. Care to provide more information on what you mean by the initial glamour in an animal divination?

How impulsive of me, I thought you were claiming experience of the ritual I described in the text you quoted - what a misunderstanding!

Thats ok. I merely meant I used a shaman mask where I developed my own ritual from the ritual. Although I am familiar with “the hunt” which in itself can be seen within different aspects of reality and magick, which I have likewise adapted my own uses hybridizing techniques.