Pacts with Something Other than Demons?

Maybe it’s just me but I find myself annoyed that most of the information on pact-magick puts such a disproportionate emphasis on demons. Don’t get me wrong I have nothing against demons in principle and I probably will work with them in future, it just pisses me off that all the good books on pacts seem so limited to demons or treat other entities like alsorands in a" by the way, you can do this with other entities too" kind of way.
Am I alone here that I like the formal/ professional/proper aspects of a pact or contract but I want it with other than a demon? Anyone have any good stories about experiences with contracting with non-demonic entities?

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In Asatru, it is not uncommon to make an oath with one of the gods you are close to. I imagine it would be the same with other pantheons

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Maybe it has to do with the “sinister” ring that the word demon has to those who aren’t really familiar with what demons actually are (i.e. spirits). You can make pacts with any and all types of spirits that allow such agreements, and adapt the points you find mentioned in demonic pacts to whatever spirit you choose to work with. In publications intended for a wider audience, it’s usually the Devil or “demons”, and of course, angels, because they have strong connotations attached to them and attract more readers. Imo it’s up to each practitioner to weed out the useless stuff and find the approach that works best for them. But that’s just my take on it. Btw I have a pact with a “demon” but I do not see Him as such, so there’s that. :sweat_smile:

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I don’t think an oath is quite the same as a pact or contract, an oath implies deference and servitude and it has a moral/spiritual/abstact connotation whereas pacts at least IMO are more mutualistic practical and business-like

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Here are a couple of old threads from people who made pacts with non demonic entities:

Unfortunately, both OPs are no longer on the forum to talk more in depth about their experiences.

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In my system with all the entities it’s the same: “hey, dude, I want you to do this, if you do that, I do this other thing, okay? okay, thank you!”

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Generally speaking, demons are about the only ones willing to work with mortals as equals, partners, which is what pacts are about— Agreements between equals. Oaths & geases are how many spirits operate, because they see the practitioner (usually) as inferior, something to be used, not worked with. Demons by & large are very open-minded & chill, other types of spirits, it varies greatly depending on who is talking to them. You could easily make a pact with something like the fae, or assorted elementals, or what-have-you, but you would need the muscle to back it up.

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I like to hear about pacts with beings other than a demons mainly because a lot of the times people are just slapping deity onto demons and thinking they’re the same, or force merging Gods as masks of demons.

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I couldn’t agree more

A pact is just forming a close working relationship for a period of time or a lifetime, and isn’t special to demonology.
The term is probably to do with demonology being the tradition the word “pact” was coined in. In other traditions it’s just called something different.

If you look at the Norse current, you can make a lifelong “pact” with a god and call yourself an Odinsman, or Freyasman, for example. Oh Tiberius said that. In the goddess traditions, you can become a Priestess of the Goddess etc. You can consecrate yourself to an entity, do a confirmation, get baptised, sign a contract.

I don’t think “oath” implies any kind of servitude, though. To do so, that should be in the working of the oath. The Norse were not servants to thier gods, they viewed them as friends and very real daily allies. It does imply loyalty to the agreement, which is what a pact, a contract and an oath are - an agreement to do a thing and get things in return.

I think there’d be no issue with you asking any entity to work with you under a pact if you like, it’s personal, between you an them, and I don’t see why human semantics should make more of a different than intention, so I don’t think they do. Conversely, you can also swear oaths to daemons.

I work with Samael under a pact he invited me to join, I have a pact with Lucifuge and I have sworn oaths to Freya and Azazel.

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I realize it’s a bit semantic on my part I just meant that I personally would never swear an oath because of the moral and hierarchical connotations there I like the idea of pacts and contracts because of their precision and business like nature the Norse conception of loyalty as I understand it is too moralistic on not cerebral enough for me no judgements of other people though

I see what you mean. Maybe it’s just in my nature to mix things up anyway. I don’t feel anything moral about my oaths, but they’re very limited in scope.
(I’m not actually a fan of making pacts, these happened organically and the pros outweighed they cons, or were related to work I’m doing, I did not initiate them.)

My pact with Lucifuge is more like an oath to be loyal to a lifestyle.
My oath to Freya is more like a pact to perform a specific act regularly as well as hold a certain attitude for a given kinsman in my heart.
I see both as promises for a permanent behavior pattern, basically. However my pact with Samael is a more traditional “evoke for x days” thing. In all cases of have to break the promise to break the pact or oath, and I don’t think I feel differently about I’ve vs the other.

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Interesting
Personally I’m starting what I guess I’m going to call a “literary pathworking”
I plan to work with Morpheus/Dream, Oberon, Mab,PuckNyarolethotep, Nodens and eventually Mephistopheles
I call it a literary pathworking because all of the entities I plan to work with inspired and/or have a strong connection to literiture

I thought “demons” and deities were the same thing. Any other deity that isn’t jehovah/elloi/allah is demon or “the devil”?

Try sirens. I heard they are very nice to men. :smiley:

No demons are demons, deities are deities. It’s more like not all demons were demonized Gods. They’re different groups/races.

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Sirens and men are the the worst combo unless you want to end your life. I have never heard of an encounter between a man an a siren that has ended good. But theirs a first time for everything I guess.

Sirens aren’t that bad, regardless of gender and there’s some sirens who prefer women over men or neither. I’ve seen aspects of their civilizations in projection, it’s pretty impressive imo.

Really @Velenos ok would be nice to see that that’s what I love with forum you learn something new every time. How did you see it through meditation visualizing their world or through A ceremonial Way ?

Through OOBE/projection