Pacts and Working relationships

Is communing / inviting and entity to an invocation /evocation the same as making a pact? Is there a way to form a relationship without making a pact? Thanks

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I believe that it is not pact until you agree on a pact with that being and just call to them. If you call on them, you can talk and ask for their help without having to have them in your body.

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That way you can build a relationship with them.

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you only create the pact if you want too and the demon was agree with the deal

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You don’t have to make a pact to form a relationship, Invocation is quite enough.

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My understanding that a pact should be made if you want to work toward something specific, but if you want a relationship with a spirit it doesnt require any kind of pact making

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Making a pact isn’t something carved in stone.
People work with and without making a pact and if everything is working smoothly then why make a pact :wink:

So I can choose a spirit I want to call in, and invite its presence, make an offering and just see if it comes and just “meet”? This is very new to me!

You could activate a sigil,chant the enn and once you feel it’s presence,you thank it for coming you can give it a task and ask for it to help you and IF the spirit decides to help you tell them what you are willing to offer after the task is done, a pact is like a contract so If you make one you keep your end of the contract and the spirit will keep there’s IF they accept the “contract” and if you break the pact your fucked haha but you can just work with it the first way I mentioned

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Thanks, what sort of things to people offer and how long does it go on for? Are all pacts automatically ongoing? Some teachers online give the impression that they last for the rest of your life? But, cant it be in exchange for something not ongoing? Sorry if there are silly questions, im trying to get my head around this and it seems a little scary the way some people talk about it on youtube…

I work with Hekate and often just light candles and incense on my Hekate altar, rarely i ask for help…but when i do each time i have received what i needed. I dont consider it to be an explicit pact though. Is this what people talk about when they say they are “devotees” of a certain goddess? like you promise to work with them only?
Thanks

Types of things offered can be candles, incense, wine, liquor, food, blood even. YOUR blood, don’t be killing anything.

A pact is a written agreement for a set period of time. You keep your end and they keep theirs.

A working relationship is what I do. I’ll ask for something and say I’ll do “ this thing X amount of times for four weeks” or something like that. But all the entities I work with I’ve created a bond with. That doesn’t mean they’ll help with everything or take on every petition. I still give offerings when I evoke for the simple matter they are a guest.

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Can’t overemphasize this enough! More people need to adopt this attitude in their working relationships. There’s a reason we left Christianity for a reason. We simply don’t go to spirits and do things whenever we find something inconvenient.

They are indeed our guests and having that attitude gets you a long way

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Queen Beleth stressed to me how much they wish to be remembered, NOT just when we want something. I give freely because I know they’re working on my behalf before I even ask. :heart:

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Exactly! A lot of black magicians need to adopt this attitude

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So very true! Thank you @AradiaX @Aluriel

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Is communing / inviting and entity to an invocation /evocation the same as making a pact?
I feel that Invocation is invitation. It should be polite, respectful, and forthright. Evocation is more of a forceful, commanding, binding type of thing, to me. I would never try to force, coerce, or command a demon/God/Goddess to obey my will…it will either alienate them and all other spirits or I could get hurt.
Invocation, to me, can invite a Demon to dwell within my body, or it can invite a Demon to make its presence known to me outside my body.
Different folks have different definitions and ideas. These are just my own personal thoughts and ideas.