Not everything requires a pact

I would like to talk about the trend of pacting these days. I have noticed that in recent years everybody just wants to make a pact with a demon whenever they have a small problem they want to make a pact about it and they use pacts for everything, every single thing. And it kinda seems really stupid to me and also really weird.

So a pact is almost like a dedication in a way like I will dedicate my life to doing something in exchange for something I want and I desire. And I don’t see why people pelt demons with offerings for everything and offerings are great but I think people over-use them. Some people who come to magick from cultures where it’s considered to pay the entity with an offering in exchange for the help they’re giving you. And in a way I suppose you kind of do that anyway because if you’re working with a demon you’re atleast providing them your undivided attention and your commitment to the work , the self work and the things that you need to do in order to make what you want to happen so that’s any type of magick. You’re not only throwing the intent out there but you’re bringing in external influences to help influence that situation to your favor and in that sense the demonic would obviously expect that you are willing to atleast maybe offer a drop of your blood if it’s that important to you would you offer a drop of your own blood for that. But people are just like “No! Give them a burger or a sandwich”.

Like for eg. I give you $10 and tell you to get something for me and then I walk away. Do you think you would do the work for me if I come to you from nowhere and just offer you $10 to do the work for me and then just leave? That’s not how things work. So with pacts it’s kind of the same thing some people are like “I will give you my firstborn” and there are people out there who actually consider giving their firstborn for a pact. That’s insane. And then there are also some people thinking to offer their souls to the demonic. Demons aren’t running around collecting souls, they’re not. Demons have no use of your soul. We have this erroneous impression that the demons are motivated by the same things as we are or that spirits in general are motivated by the same things as we are but the truth is they’re not unless you’re dealing with perhaps tethered spirits of a deceased human being who has the mindset still of a physical being then you’re not going to get that. But with demons They have never been physical, they don’t have the same motivations, they don’t have the same sexual impulses but unfortunately as humans that’s how we relate to things. we have to put it in that mindset to where we can wrap our heads around it because it is very difficult for us to fathom a different motivation, a different state of existence that isn’t a physical existence.

So offerings can be anything. Offerings can be your time, you can dedicate your time to them. So as far as pacts go save them for the big stuff for eg. if you want to get into a career in broadcasting and you want to be on the local news or maybe even the national news as an anchor so that’s a pretty big goal you might want to sit down and actually write out a pact for that. But people nowadays mostly people who are New to magick are like “Okay, I want to make a pact in order to get that $3 an hour raise and be able to go to Disneyland next year with my family” and you don’t need to make a pact for that. You can do magick for that purpose and maybe bring in demonic energy but consider if you’re going to give something like a couple drops of blood or your time and attention. Your time and attention are worth a great deal to the demonic. They actually want to work with people who actually want to improve and ascend their consciousness that is more along their motivation than offering them some sandwiches or apples or offering them your first born etc.

I don’t know why this trend of making pacts have gotten so big and I think it has a lot to do with people pull into their personal practices things from other traditions and so you see a lot of people start pulling in stuff from the afro-Caribbean religions. Where there is a tit for tat when you’re working with spirits. You do give an offering in an exchange for something else, you do promise to do a specific thing in order to get what you want but you don’t always need to do that As long as you are giving your time and attention.

And giving blood isn’t so much for their benefit but it is so that they can see how serious you are about it. Are you willing to shed a few drops of blood for what you want. If you’re not willing to suffer a pinprick of pain for what you want then do you really want it? That’s the question you have to ask yourself. So there are a lot of different methods and I guess you could throw a pact at every situation I just think it’s an overkill, personally.

There are such instances and situations where making you can make a pact and that’s fine I don’t see that as a problem but when you’re doing it for every little thing then you might wanna re-think that. Just because an actual pact is a very big commitment because you have to uphold your end of the bargain too. And if you think that you’re going to have a bad experience with a demon then you might have one because it’s a self-fulfilled prophecy, you bring that on yourself. It’s your fear that the bad things are gonna happen, you fear you build up all that anxiety and then you manifest it for yourself.

So remember that words have power, thoughts have power and the things we say and the things we think will actually affect our magic and sometimes bring some of that negativity on back on us so you do have to remember that.

Demons are happy whenever you ask their help and respect them and sometimes their lessons can be harsh but you need to listen to them and pay attention to their advises. Pacts are however very effective form of magick and it can be very powerful.

Would love to know other members views & opinions on this trend of pact making nowadays and I urge to maybe give your own personal advises on these matters, your advises & wisdom can be beneficial for the seekers who are new to magick. :heart:

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Being someone who is a direct magick practitioner, I always thought the pacts was just something indirect practitioners liked doing simply to do it, as that’s what they are use to :man_shrugging:t5:

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To be frank, what another magician does is none of my business & as long as it doesn’t affect me or mine, I don’t care :woman_shrugging:t5: Who am I to say they can’t make a pact, why should I judge someone just because they choose to give offerings to spirits or deities with whom they work? I just don’t care.

You can give all the advice in the world, and it seems people are just going to do what they want anyway, or give tons of excuses as to why they can’t take said advice.

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I’ll bite. I made two when I first started with demonolatry. Why? Because I’m the dedicated sort and see my things through if it’s possible. I’m also no one to wantonly offer nonsense I can’t keep up on my end.

First, both pacts are now nullified. This was a lesson I learned from Leviathan and Belial. The point of the first nullification was to teach me that they may not be necessary. The point of the second was to teach me about adding language to allow one party or the other to cancel it with specific terms.

I don’t use them now. Why? Because I don’t need to. A specific solution for a specific problem, not a blanket ask for unknown problems.

I would see one exception to this, but even then, it isn’t needed. That would be a “dedication” to a spirit for a specific amount of time, to learn and be taught by them as a sign of sincerity or devotion (not worship). But I wouldn’t need a pact for that. I would state my intention to do so and go for it.

This simplest (and incomplete) answer is because they kept hearing about it through the Gatekeeper series. “I made a 90 pact with Azazel” and similar things. It makes it seem like it is needed. My pact with Belial (not a gatekeeper working pact), was done in two months because it wasn’t needed and he knew it, so he cancelled it. I think that newer folk think it implies a certain sincerity and maybe it does for them, if they have trouble following through.

I still do this. I didn’t get it from the Afro-Caribbean side, but the “gift for a gift” Norse side. I pay for my workings, but not only with blood. I’ll pay with song, with invocation and allowing them to taste food and drink through me, etc… It doesn’t have to be blood, which they know I’ll shed for what I want.

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I think a lot of people go for a pact simply because they think it is the easy way to get what they want without any effort on their part. You just need to look around this forum to see a dozen or more posts opened by folks with little to no magical experience looking to make a pact or sell their soul to fulfil some outrageous dream. Instead of taking the time to develop magical skills and abilities and learning how to properly evoke, they want to do what they see in the movies or read about in fantasy novels, and sign in blood on the dotted line, and poof! what they want will suddenly appear before their very eyes.

Honestly, I think many people confuse a pact with a petition, and don’t treat it like the serious binding agreement that it is.

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they be gangster style. everything need a pact. lol.

why do gangs have pact? same reason for these folks.

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Great advise & perception from everyone who replied. Thankyou for taking out your time to share your valuable perception & advise.

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I was going to respond to this post last night but ran out steam before I could. I’ve read the thread and the opinions on it and I’d agree that it seems like there’s ALOT of pacting going on out there, especially with regards to beginners. Ok here’s my two cents.

When I was learning evocation I didn’t have a formal teacher to assist me. I was extremely fortunate that Prince Orobas responded to my call on and carried out his charge spectacularly. I needed a strong ally/mentor at that point in my studies due to not having an instructor. So I decided to make a pact.
Mine was very simple and clear. it’s lasted 21 years and both spirit and I are very satisfied with the arrangement. So for me it was the right move. I do think many newer students using pacts for reasons I’d consider innapropriate. Perhaps it’s becoming… fashionable to have a pact.
I’d advise a student to already have a strong working relationship for a good long while before upgrading ties to the pact level. That’s my opinion.

I also have to agree with @QueenMustang [quote=“QueenMustang, post:3, topic:143727”]
To be frank, what another magician does is none of my business & as long as it doesn’t affect me or mine, I don’t care
[/quote]

This about sums up my feeling as well on what other Magicians are doing within the privacy of their own practice.:v:

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I agree with you for the most part, except your commentary about blood. I dont think its a problem if you don’t want to give blood in a ritual. It doesn’t necessarily mean that you don’t want the goal. Giving blood is a serious deal, and not every person is willing to make that kind of connection with an entity. Blood is something that spirits can feed off of to power themselves…not literally but spiritually, that life force energy can help catapult them towards your goal. So I see it as largely a personal choice. I don’t see it as litmus test on the persons dedication towards the end goal.

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I agree, but I wasn’t talking about offering blood in general. I was just talking about giving blood in pacts. Mostly people when making pacts they offer blood to the Demonic and I was just stating my opinion on blood offerings that giving blood doesn’t really benefit the Demonic but it is so that they can see how serious you are about it.

And offering blood isn’t necessary that’s also something I mentioned in my post here.

In my opinion Many Demons don’t even require blood for eg. Khemetic Demons and in my experience I have also found Belial to be happy with flowers or plants offerings. So yes I agree that offering blood is a personal choice.

I think this is something parasitic or Lower energetic spirits do but not the Demonic.

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I agree with your perception but We are just offering a simple advise for the novices that come across this path. We are not saying “This is the right way to do it” but we are just stating what we believe is right from our experiences. We aren’t judging anyone the whole point of this post was to just bring awareness about this pacting trend so that newbies can take this advise and benefit from it not to shovel these advises down their throat and tell them “this is the right way” or “This is how you should do it” .

And Thankyou for sharing your experiences and opinion on pact making. Really appreciate it.

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I see what you’re saying and where you’re coming from. I wasn’t trying to be a dick either I just thought I’d try to add my thoughts to the mix. With respect no offense intended if what I was trying to say came out a little more bristly than how I meant.

I hear you. What are the best offerings to demons then?
I want the demons who work with me to feel happy.
I usually offer them something when they help me, out of gratitude and with plenty of gratitude. I don’t do it as a payment. I do it coming from the heart.
If it was a friend helping me I would still offer them something as gratitude. Same I treat the spirits I work with… gratitude and recognition

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If you draw some artwork of them or make a song dedicated to them I’m sure it’d make them happy. You could also “pay it forward” and do good deeds for others in order to help raise the vibrations of this planet. Demons like it when you do good stuff for people, especially if it’s related to something they specialize in. You can do things for them in the physical plane to help make their jobs easier too.

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No I am not paying forward unless there is a reason.
Offerings after the job is done. I am not breaking my rule. I have tried giving forward and it doesn’t work as well.
If they refuse to do the job then there is no point in payment.
I am not new in working with demons. I just wanted the op opinion

Id agree with you, that’s been my experience also.

Yeah I agree completely.

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It depends on what type of demons you’re working with for eg. some demons prefer certain types of offerings like khemetic Demons they prefer milk and honey and it is also a fantastic offering for Roman and Greek demons. Bastet is fond of water. Other demons on the other hand, prefer blood offerings, some more than others like Belphegor, Ba’al, Balberith are three demons who tend to prefer blood offerings.

You can also offer wine or plants & flowers, however, if you grow those plants or flowers yourself it’s more better. Demons such as Ashtaroth, unsere, leviathan and lucifer appreciate flower offerings and any demon who is Earthy or watery in some way strongly resonates with plant energy as an offering.

Then you can also offer fruit to the demon’s who’s purpose is to transform the living to the dead. There is a life force in fruit that those demons seem to enjoy.

Most demons also will accept sexual fluids but this type of offering works best with fire demons.

You can offer candles, incense or oleums. Or if you want to create more of a strong bond with a demon you can offer them creative offerings such as paintings, pottery, music, poetry or writing.

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Someone had told me that Lucifer likes personal sacrifice and told me as an offering to do fasting so that my suffering was the offering…
Thank you for the info. I can now offer him things he likes most. He is one of my favourites.
I am good with plants. I have 20 in my room atm. I can give one to each demon I work lol no problem :slightly_smiling_face:
Might write songs for them too… :ok_hand:

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A personal sacrifice doesn’t need to be a fasting, however, you can do it but A personal sacrifice can be anything like going into the field and plucking flowers for lucifer can be considered a personal sacrifice. Buying a glass of wine with your own hard earned money is also considered to be a personal sacrifice even if you just offer your time it is still considered a personal sacrifice of your time.

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This explains why the demons i work with they like me lol I am talkative with them… I guess I was spoiling them haha :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: I didn’t know.