I know some are interested in EA’s new Norse pathworking course and it would be nice to hear some ppl thoughts about it.
Seeing the release mail for it me personaly feel a little thorn appart.
Norse mythology has been my thing since i learned to read and in none of all the stories or lore is Loki depictured as a god of fire and for me that clame makes me feel that this course aint for me. Luckily there is more courses on Balg that i need/want, but as i said it would be great to hear ppl experience from this pathworking, perhaps that will sway my mind(:
Oddly enough i had heard of loki As a god of fire,blood brother of thor and odin, and sleipnir as a son of fire for years before i thought about exploring info related to norse magic and the north myths.
Interesting, any sources for that?
I wanna expand my knowledge.
Odin and Loki being bloodbrothers i know but i have never heard him being that with Tor. Loki do refer to him and Odin being bloodbrothers on occasion but never Tor to my knowledge.
In one of the stories about Tor and Loki there is a challange where Loki is beasted by the giants by the use of fire magic, thats unlikely If he is the god of fire to me.
Now granted the base with storys might not be the strongest of argument but most of whats known about the mythology of the Norse is based on old storys.
But one more reason that makes me question if the Vikings have a god of fore at all is that fire and ice are in the viking world view seen as 2 polarity forces, one belonging to different realms (If i remember correct its nifelheim for ice and muspelheim for fire).
So the elements of fire and ice seems not to be under the domain of the aesir gods.
Now im not saying im right thats only my view of it from the knowledge i have at this point of time, but as i said any sources of Lokis connection with fire would be great so i can slap myself, acknowledge being wrong and continue to learn more(:
I would need to dig around a a hit later. Been about 5months since i went down that rabbit whole hardcore lol keep getting dragged back for references between the norse and vedic gods and the div’s.
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Did some digging myself, got curious(;
What i could find at first glance was a theory from 1835 where Jacob Grimm presents him as a good of fire. Without the weitten work thou i do t know Why that claim is maid.
Second seems to be from 1889 by Sophus Bugge trying to tie Loki to lucifer and to put a connection to christianity to Norse mythology so that one is more an attemt to promote christianity as a universal truth then giving any real value to Norse mythology of its own.
@Grimner The point is that the Course is based on EA’s EXPERIENCE I believe. Who cares what the myths say? EA has gone and actually talked with them and made a course based on his own experience.
@Grimner I am pretty sure EA made it clear that the course is in no way directly taken word for word from ancient texts. It’s his own insight by working with these beings himself. We can sit here arguing all day long about History but to quote EA:
The real test of the magick of the system is only in its application, though. Once we take these ideas and put them into magickal application, then we can truly see the utility of them.
And, having had our experiences, we have thus verified the philosophies to some extent, and can even further verify and validate them by communicating them to others… which is really how religions, philosophies, and cultures are created!
What separates magick from religion, however, is that magick is meant to produce results! Thus, personal experience and immersion into this pathworking system is not a search for gnosis, but for power.
So, “Unverified Personal Gnosis”, when filtered through the lens of magick, really becomes “Verifable Interpersonal Magick.”
@Grimner It’s absolutely pointless to argue about sources all day long. Remember, that we are studying sorcery and not myth. Myth is about looking at ancient sources and trying to find out what other people believed. Sorcery is about going out, experiencing the world of Spirit for real, and making change in the world. If the Vikings didn’t believe that Loki was a god of fire so what? They could very well have been wrong about their own gods. I find it strange that anyone would place such importance on second hand sources over EA’s personal experience of these entities. All of these sources are at the end of the day probably corrupted and not an accurate reflection of who these entities actually are. It’s all second hand whereas EA’s experience is not.
Well for me the point is that my experience and my knowledge differ from this statement about Loki.
Im not saying EA is wrong seeing as its based on hes own experience as you say Storm then the system works for him.
Surely i could use it aswell but seeing as that statement doesnt fit into my view would i get the same result as him or would i get the result based from my views and my understanding?
Im feeling im about to get to much of track here.
And it has given me more yo think about so Thanks storm for your input it nudges me towards ideas i wouldnt get otherwise.
@Grimner I find that entities are a lot more multilayered than we realize. If we approach them with an open mind we find there is far more beyond the surface than we first saw.
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Well then i would say that might explain my question a little, we each will find what we expect to find and in that same we will hopefully find what we need and what most will aid us in our quest.
Damn so much work to do and so little time(
As i said many new insight from your replays now and even more keeps coming.
Hey what do you know you might have Swayed me to get this course Storm, soultravel course above it in the list thou(;
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@Grimner The reason Loki is associated with fire is because of Wagner’s Ring Cycle. He used Logi, personifed fire, as his version of Loki. It’s further ‘proven’, (by those who wish to believe it) that a hearth stone was found depicting Loki. It was a common practice in Jacob Grimm’s time (who went around Germany and Scandinavia collecting folk tales) that people would throw a bit of their alcohol into the hearthfire to warm Loke (which is actually the correct spelling for Loki, we have just anglicized it).
However, since he’s been associated with fire since Wanger’s opera, the spirit of Loki has probably take on some of those aspect in his appearance to his follower.
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I’m pretty interested in the course but I plan on purchasing the Vodoun course first.
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But who is to say that a similar process of “corruption” is not at play here? EA has an experience; fine. But that experience has itself been filtered through the lens of his own subconscious pre-understandings, biases, prejudices etc such that what we are left with is an interpretation of “the gods” that is as much subject to conjecture as the Poetic Edda.
@Warlock Better than being filtered through all that PLUS centuries of misinterpretation by scholars. It’s not like the Norse were unbiased.
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I would personaly think that the old Norse should have been close to their gods then we are.
We are marker by the time we live in and by the knowledge we have in so many different areas.
EA’s experience is also a second hand info in my view since the only first hand is my own experience. That ofc doesnt mean others experiences are not worth anything on the contrary thats still info to me, but for me i want 2 independent sources to give the same info and from that i have a base to start from.
EA himself has said that one should immerse in studies of the entitys you wish to work with, read abouth them and get a feel for them.
And by doing so depending on your sources and the multilayer of the gods our studies and understanding will influense our outcome.
Then by working with the entity we may strip away all missconception and get a more ”true” image of the entity.
Hm this makes me wounder seeing as ”everyone” working with the goetia reads the same description then have the same understanding of the entitys and should get the same result.
Would 2 ppl trying to work with the same entity of which they have no previous knowledge get the same result?
(Being there level of skill and experience be the same and not being to much of a variable).
Not true. By now there are enough different descriptions of these entities from various authors that many of us haven’t even read the original text.[quote=“Grimner, post:16, topic:21207”]
I would personally think that the old Norse should have been close to their gods then we are.
We are marker by the time we live in and by the knowledge we have in so many different areas.
[/quote]
Not necessarily. I would think that EA has a firmer basis in magick than most of the Norse ever did and could therefore establish a far more solid contact with these entities.
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On what evidence to you base this comparison? Have you gone back in time to personally assess the magical skills of the old vitkis and volvas? And if so, what criteria did you use to make such an assessment?
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@Warlock On the simple fact that it doesn’t seem that the vast majority of the people of any population had a firm basis in magick. Remember, we are basing this on myths transmitted through the general populace and not the direct transmissions of these Vitkis. The tales told by your average Norse farmer (which is what all myths eventually become) has gotta be less reliable than the experience of a trained sorcerer.
@Warlock If we had written accounts by the Vitkis themselves that would be very different, but we don’t. Your average worshipper is just not going to be a good sorcerer.