Non-Enochian 'Watchers' or is there a better terminology?

[MagickAndBreakz]

For a while I’ve been going a lot lighter in my work, mostly focusing on resting from a few years of intense vocational activity, and I’m starting to chew on how to approach my spiritual path as I pick it up again and get more ‘active’.

I’m in a place right now where the following are true for my cosmology:

• My evidence-assembled belief is that, at least on the ‘in this system’ side of things, we’re in something like a biological stack of consciousness where there are higher level minds made of many human minds and perhaps other forms of mind aggregated from sources we have less of a grasp on as they’re less available to us for empirical examination.

• It’s like living in a big subconscious stew where if you tickle an upper level of consciousness and it sneezes, twitches, or does something like that, you get these superficial synchronicities where they show shallow / surface associations, it’s an interesting effect but only helpful if you’re trying to shake off previous reductive materialist beliefs. In that sense though these associations look like the associative nature of deeper conscious circuits that operate ‘in the dark’ for most humans.

• I’m aware that there are people who can momentarily show up within us, sometimes delivering a life-saving warning or stabilizing us when we’ve got a big challenge ahead. What gets tricky to identify is their origin, there’s a lot of evidence that DMT, on blastoff, shatters us into identities that are normally composite as us, dreams make landscapes in this fashion, but it seems true as well that the door to supervening realms is within and it stands to reason just as much that these can be ancestors or all kinds of other higher structs.

That’s where I’m wondering - is the best terminology for the most proximate interested, Holy Guardian Angel, guides, ancestors? I’m wondering from anyone whose probed around up there if they’ve gotten any sense as to which of these groups, structs, or groups of structs are working with us the most and where you can find your best ‘I’ll help you help me help you’ relationships?

Admittedly while I’ve done a lot of Golden Dawn related, and now some amount of Qliphothic work, I feel like my next step is to take responsibility for being a part of a higher aggregate cognition, the effects I can have on that cognition, and figuring out how it is that I best generate a win/win and matured relationship with that layer (meaning I don’t treat them in a cargo-culty manner and they don’t treat me like battery-farmed chicken nuggets).

Let me know if that set of premises and questions rings any relatable bells.

One thing I’ve always had an interest in doing was seeing if there was any possibility of having an improved relationship with that level could help tune me in to resources that could help work against big x-risks like nuclear bombs, synthetic biology, AI, the kinds of things where maybe certain memetic information from higher levels would help prevent that sort of thing (the whole ‘Moloch’ and multipolar traps / game theory thing freaks me out), or possibly that it’s a horrible interventionist suggestion, that it’s already covered, and that I need to go take a chill pill or do whatever they would rather I do with my energy and attention (either or would be an important / meaningful result).

[Tekidor]

I’m working on something similar. My experience in spirituality thus far has been mostly comprised of war and parasitic bullying from ancient shenanigans that mortally speaking we have very little to do with. Depending on who/what a person is they’ll naturally have different attunements to an “Akashic Radiance” as I’ve been told it’s called. Akashic Records jazz; memories of past future and present events coinciding with possibilities.
Bottom line; it’s in flux and always has been. That “holy guardian angel” stuff? I’ve come to the conclusion that for the most part it’s somewhat of a lie. Or at least it was?
Any and all humans have an enormous potential for awakening; there’s all sorts of goodies in human and cosmic ancestry, but you only “get” to that big-boy form of HGA if you activate your whole line. Otherwise, your spirit will naturally latch onto whatever it needs in order to survive, but temporarily gaining access to something that you should have awakened anyway just to move out of the way of certain types of disaster sounds to me like trademark slave techniques. Yeah, you can have your holy protection and power as long as you’re a good boy. Nah, HGA is supposed to be far more… reachable than it’s talked about, and as we know, these parts of the cosmos haven’t exactly been friendly to sovereign beings for quite a while. Religious defiling’s and mixings and enslavements of spirits, gods, angels, humans, you name it, all over the span of many many many generations of wars.

Depending on what types of fields you are connected to be it genetically or otherwise, you may have a great deal of difficulty understanding what’s going on in some other data-sphere in this “akashic radiance”. It might even look like wars are still happening when they’re not, or someone might confuse mating rituals with death threats.

I am assuming, the Goetics know this. In fact, I know they do, I just dont’ know to what extent, or who knows more about what parts. I’m not sure anyone does actually. In general, there seems to be a great deal of war, conufsion, and madness, over the fact that this “biological stack of consciousness” is quite overloaded with sensitivities and truamas all the while everyone is trying to figure out who the fuck they even are because throughout all the war shenanigans many of (us) have had our souls ripped out and twisted and put back together in different ways just to get from point A to point B.

So, you wanna talk about helping steer the cosmos in the right direction? ME TOO. However, mages/witches/sorcerers/psychics/entities that are even capable of it ARENT EVEN ON THE SAME PAGE with whats happening in the cosmos. IE, whats even real, who is who, what is what, what means what, and petty bullshit aside, there are a shit ton of old warlords that WANT peace but don’t know how to achieve it because we’re too fucking paranoid and can’t trust ourselves and others to not stab each other in the back at the first chance we get, simply because it’s all we know, and all we could know, and we’re sorta just… waiting to find a stable place to talk to “everyone else”, whoever that is, in a place where we know that betrayal is both inevitable and accounted for.
Also, I might add, everyone wants to rule the fucking world, and it’s part of the problem. Interventionism is probably one of those big-issue things that needs to be handled; not sure how tho. What, are you gonna take magic away from idiots? No? Thats free power? What if people realized nukes aren’t that hard to make? Dunno man. “Trust the spirits/HGA/guides” doesn’t cut it anymore.

I think I’m rambling but, to address the question of who’s working with (us) the most in leu of HGA type symbolism, I honestly think thats what the whole… “godform” thing is about. Acausal darkness, creating yourself as a being of the abyss, etc etc etc, you black mages know the drill. The support systems of reality for “the average folk” of the cosmos round these parts went sour and about enslavement at the end of the day, regardless of if that was the OG intention, and people are kinda just now wondering “hey wait a minute… who’s actually fighting for the little guys?”. And now, of course, people that actually are fighting for “a good agenda” are having to come to terms with each other, regardless of how much we might hate certain parts of our collective history and prospective futures. In fact, thats the only reason I’m even writing this up here. I do hope, someday, to get along better with things, and I hope the feeling is mutual, betrayal accounted for, accepted, rejected, destroyed, enjoyed.

If I sound like a psycho I apologize, I can clarify/expand if you ask.

• Tek

[MagickAndBreakz]

First - thank you, amazingly on-point response and occasional conversations like these are why I’d still come here.

Blockquote Yeah, you can have your holy protection and power as long as you’re a good boy. Nah, HGA is supposed to be far more… reachable than it’s talked about, and as we know, these parts of the cosmos haven’t exactly been friendly to sovereign beings for quite a while. Religious defiling’s and mixings and enslavements of spirits, gods, angels, humans, you name it, all over the span of many many many generations of wars.

A couple thoughts:

• If I actually do know my HGA it’s fused with anima and on one hand frighteningly seductive and can just about hijack me at will when I’m waking up from sleep (whether normal time but sometimes 2AM’ish) but has a ‘friendly’ boundary on the other side in that she wouldn’t generally want to ‘possess me’ but here and there she’ll wash over me and effectively tell me how things are going to be (and she’s played it above board with that but still - scary, it’s like having Emmanuelle Seigner in Ninth Gate leading and protecting me sometimes if you gave her a much more innocent and suburban appearance). What I’m used to think of as HGA are the famous old fashion cases in the Catholic church of Theresa of Avila or John of the Cross when they were visited by a white ball of bliss and a firehose of data that they’d liken to either Jesus or Sophia. The one girl I know of who did the Abramelin retreat shared that her HGA was male, I’m seeing a bit of a pattern here, I’m just on the fence on how to step forward - if it’s her.

• It sounds throughout the course of what’s in this post is that Darwinian game theory isn’t just a problem on our planet but something our whole branch of existence is grappling with. You’ve got an absolute polymath named Daniel Schmachtenberger chewing on this issue, he and Tristan Harris have a bit of a social acolyte in the way of Liv Boeree (famous, a bit more attractive than Daniel, and someone who got famous winning at poker, also got her degree in astrophysics later and got pulled into the problem of how to break the spell of negative sum games and multipolar traps), and there’s something of a core text on that problem - Slate Star Codex’s ‘Meditations on Moloch’. The problem is fractal defection and the realization that the physics we have set things up so that whoever is the arsehole first wins the game and everyone else has to then run to the Red Queen’s metronome, which is run twice to stay in the same place - hence the defector gets double the advantage in that 1) they steel all the marbles or whatever else in the commons and 2) they’ve, by that increment, decreased the power of anyone who had lent their marbles to the commons. Classic one-up / one-down or even really one-up / many-down. There’s a lot to be said as well about market liberalism unchecked by some big social institution (religion had it’s flaws but needs a similar counterbalancing replacement for social capital), which goes back to the concepts of socially centrifugal and centripetal forces (gemeinschaft and gesellschaft) where market liberalism uncontested is ultimately about maximum extraction, a place where the best economic arrangement for a successful company is addiction, the best set of work hours are 80 per week for everyone, and if your job doesn’t require 80 hour per week you’ll probably need a handful of side hustles to make ends meet.

So, you wanna talk about helping steer the cosmos in the right direction? ME TOO. However, mages/witches/sorcerers/psychics/entities that are even capable of it ARENT EVEN ON THE SAME PAGE with whats happening in the cosmos. IE, whats even real, who is who, what is what, what means what, and petty bullshit aside, there are a shit ton of old warlords that WANT peace but don’t know how to achieve it because we’re too fucking paranoid and can’t trust ourselves and others to not stab each other in the back at the first chance we get, simply because it’s all we know, and all we could know, and we’re sorta just… waiting to find a stable place to talk to “everyone else”, whoever that is, in a place where we know that betrayal is both inevitable and accounted for.
Also, I might add, everyone wants to rule the fucking world, and it’s part of the problem. Interventionism is probably one of those big-issue things that needs to be handled; not sure how tho. What, are you gonna take magic away from idiots? No? Thats free power? What if people realized nukes aren’t that hard to make? Dunno man. “Trust the spirits/HGA/guides” doesn’t cut it anymore.

It’s scarcity. That sets us on course to where whatever Machiavellian selection of traits dominates the others on the shortest timeframes (simple example - whose the quickest draw on a gun or knife), that process then electrifying people into a game that they might have had no desire to play but binary of play vs survive is forced down on everyone, and there’s no reliable equivalent to a ‘This game is f’d, I’m out of here’ - some rumors in Hinduism and Buddhism but I have no direct lines between the facts that I feel comfortable are solid (an example - Jungian structure of consciousness with ego on one hand, genes on the other, and all kinds of refractory objects in the middle) and the idea that different canopies of being can touch each other off.

I think I’m rambling but, to address the question of who’s working with (us) the most in leu of HGA type symbolism, I honestly think thats what the whole… “godform” thing is about. Acausal darkness, creating yourself as a being of the abyss, etc etc etc, you black mages know the drill. The support systems of reality for “the average folk” of the cosmos round these parts went sour and about enslavement at the end of the day, regardless of if that was the OG intention, and people are kinda just now wondering “hey wait a minute… who’s actually fighting for the little guys?”. And now, of course, people that actually are fighting for “a good agenda” are having to come to terms with each other, regardless of how much we might hate certain parts of our collective history and prospective futures. In fact, thats the only reason I’m even writing this up here. I do hope, someday, to get along better with things, and I hope the feeling is mutual, betrayal accounted for, accepted, rejected, destroyed, enjoyed.

It makes me wonder how it’s even possible that thing aren’t like this - literally - everywhere in existence. There was an NDE’er named Christian Sundberg, first person I’ve heard to make a very specific and decisive claim about this and he claimed that the place people go when they have NDE’s has different registers, different causal dynamics, and thus the network effects of consciousness under scarcity and status / procreative competition or the megalomaniacal need to ‘make a mark on history’ (like millions of graves). It’s the only explanation anyone’s given that makes any sense to me at all.

For a guy who’s getting to know the Qliphoth a bit it seems like this bubble, saddle, elipse, or whatever it is is the body of the Dragon, if Lilith and Lucifer are like Nuit and Hadit in Thelema (Temple of Ascending Flame seems to at least place them a little like that) then it seems like it’s really important to work the Tree of Death because it’s the closest thing you can get, spiritually speaking, to several decades of Inosanto-style kali, silat, jkd, etc. or like learning silat directly from Herman Suwanda. It’s not about ‘Satanism’ IMHO, especially when not taking the Christian and Islamic frames all that seriously, it’s much more like trying to learn how to survive in the Vietnam War albeit the best part of our luck, so far, is in the west that violence has stayed social and economic, knock on wood, so far.

My other take - I really agree with Samo Burja’s analysis, ie. never challenge power directly but look at different ways to change the incentive landscape and make your place for change be more like a deal broker or a think tank rather than an army or something they need to crush (ie. particularly like solving problems that require aggression from them and helping to de-escalate the dynamics that would require Machiavellian behavior on their part - wild dreamy example would be technologies that make food, water, and energy too cheap and plentiful to go to war over). There’s little hope of sex ever being deleveraged unless something changed drastically in the landscape that put an extreme bottleneck on the population.

The thing I have to clarify as well to avoid naivety, I get that predator / prey relationships are a fundamental of this cosmos. It seems like the trick then is figuring out what’s in whose best interest and then do our best to tune equilibrium if it can be done at all so that some significant swatch of the cosmos isn’t either turned into paperclips or eaten by a kind of green goo algae that effectively turns everything into itself.

[Tekidor]

Yeah, it’s pretty common for people to experince the “gender swap” stuff when it comes to “higher self” jazz. Honestly, it’s not a big deal, but I myself don’t see it that way. I’ve always had a bit of difficulty connecting to a human form, like my physical body to begin with, but as far as I’m aware it’s “just symbolic” of the nature of energy dynamics that occur within your spirit depending on what kind of body you are using (ie, gender). For most people that is fairly straightforward. As far as it being seductive goes? If you even can connect to something like HGA it should for sure feel that way; it might as well be an aspect of what a true high self esteem feels like At least, thats how I see it.
Buuut yeah, I call 'em the God Games. New Universes are always dark at first, and there’s usually a huge rush for knowledge and thus power, but it seems there’s been a um… “misuse” of that natural cosmic phenomena, having been over-exploited by those simply looking to dominate. That’s the Moloch; the wisdom trap, it’s just the race to become God. Everyone wants to rule the fucking world.

@MagickAndBreakz

The problem is fractal defection and the realization that the physics we have set things up so that whoever is the arsehole first wins the game and everyone else has to then run to the Red Queen’s metronome, which is run twice to stay in the same place - hence the defector gets double the advantage in that 1) they steel all the marbles or whatever else in the commons and 2) they’ve, by that increment, decreased the power of anyone who had lent their marbles to the commons. Classic one-up / one-down or even really one-up / many-down.

It very much feels like rape, doesn’t it.
Or perhaps piracy, like that phrase from pirates of the carribean; “take what you can, give nothing back”.
What’s the difference between vampirism and parasitism anyway?
^ a few concepts to chew on if you’d like to understand my vantage point and how the cosmos conveyed these issues to me.

Also, I love the marbles analogy, that hits home XD

@MagickAndBreakz

a place where the best economic arrangement for a successful company is addiction, the best set of work hours are 80 per week for everyone, and if your job doesn’t require 80 hour per week you’ll probably need a handful of side hustles to make ends meet.

And just imagine a world where this was considered normal, and in fact the “natural landscape” in which one must learn to survive. Assuming you’re an organic creature, what godforsaken traits must you evolve into in order to thrive?
Another good way to ask that question might be, what’s the best way to be a slave if you can’t get out of being one? Fight to put the best slavers in power perhaps? No one likes games where you have to focus on choosing the lesser of evil lords forever, unless perhaps you’re at the top.

@MagickAndBreakz

and there’s no reliable equivalent to a ‘This game is f’d, I’m out of here’

and I’m glad you brought this up, cuz although it’s very fun to say that life is nothing but a dream or a joke or a game, thats an absolute dogshit philosophy when the “aight I don wanna play anymore” just means that you die. That sounds an awful lot like “real life” to me. Lol, it is all just a matter of psychological interpretation though. Some mindsets work better for certain things tho; at the end of the day I just hope people stop relying on things like religion so much in order to have hope.

I can’t really comment on the NDE and Qliphoth thing; like I said before depending on a persons cosmic history, ancestry, brands, blackmails, etc, you’re gonna connect to different parts of things. I haven’t thus far recieved a ton of good stuff from, well, any magic system or old religion and whatnot. (a few exceptions but it’s unimportant). At first I thought it might be because I actually consider myself as being The Dragon in a way, and also have the “right” to claim any name as my own if I use a system. So, if I were to use qliphoth that means that I have to eat anyone who says I’m not the whole of the tree XD
Now I’m pretty sure that’s actually totally normal, idk if I keep misinterpreting what the etiquite is for using old magic systems or what, but honestly it might just be a lot of old war truama jazz from aeons of tragedy. Whoops, sorry, the universe has PTSD and is losing its shit, come back later type of dealios? Idk, im still confused about it. War timelines and things like gods or religous systems are real screwy issues for me. Not sure how much a personal thing it is; it looks and feels real but i know it sometimes isn’t.

Oh, and I’m sure you know, justified wars aren’t the only problem. There are people/things out there who, for essentially no reason, just want to “watch the world burn” but in a bad way. I have suuuuch a difficult time with infernal stuff cuz I am still in the stages of learning how they think. Like, the whole “evil” aesthetic, which is very important in the black light mind flip techniques. Not to mention, there are a lot of people and things that require “fucked up things” in order to survive because they either spawned from it or ended up somehow needing to use it for survival. I’m sorta in that same boat it seems. Even if you could give everyone enough healing, food, shelter, etc, there will still be plenty of people who just want to “ruin it”, for various reasonings. Plus, war is fun, the consequences of war are often not.

And no, sex is nature’s leverage, it’s never going away unless humanity decides they wanna go a truly synthetic way. Similarly with predator/prey relationships; entities that are within healthy predator prey relationships do not suffer from it. They thrive on it, and it’s beautiful. Unhealthy predator prey relationships naturally succumb toeventual death, or if it’s an actually toxic one, it’s usually just a farm/place/system for making demon food and entertainment. Farming is where shit gets weird when it comes to lower beings, and Enlightenment is where shit gets weird when it comes to higher beings, cuz then you’re aware you’re not either predator or prey in truth, more just a “godform” or whathaveyou.

@MagickAndBreakz

It seems like the trick then is figuring out what’s in whose best interest and then do our best to tune equilibrium if it can be done at all so that some significant swatch of the cosmos isn’t either turned into paperclips or eaten by a kind of green goo algae that effectively turns everything into itself.

It’s been my personal experience, and philosphy, that if it seems like a giant chunk of the universe is about to be eaten by monsters or perhaps transformed into a giant wall of cancer, it’s not the evil that’s the problem. Reality, aka what people can mutually agree as being a solid structure to stand on in leu of “its all just a dream bro” or “you’re the dreamer of the cosmos”, is run by PEOPLE and the natural enviornment. Tech can play roles, but if tech “governs” it inevitably will become toxic.
This is to say that a cosmic society of sorts ought to find it’s stride, because even if you are capable of doing something all by yourself it’s usually best not to when it comes to “reality” beyond yourself.

[MagickAndBreakz]

Read this a bit late in the evening yesterday.

Yeah, it’s pretty common for people to experince the “gender swap” stuff when it comes to “higher self” jazz. Honestly, it’s not a big deal, but I myself don’t see it that way. I’ve always had a bit of difficulty connecting to a human form, like my physical body to begin with, but as far as I’m aware it’s “just symbolic” of the nature of energy dynamics that occur within your spirit depending on what kind of body you are using (ie, gender).

I’m trying to understand what it is better to then better understand what it’s strengths / capacities, limitations, and framing goals are. On one hand with Jungian psychology I can listen to Steve and Pauline Richards (Jung To Live By) and they talk about anima / animus as one’s relating function, that it shouldn’t be personified as an inner male / inner female, yet what I feel like I can understand is that our own memory banks are huge, what we have in us - that we like even - but can’t be manifest or worn in the world for survival reasons exists in perhaps something like a benevolent shadow (ie. repressed / masked levels of decency that would just be smashed or taken for exploitation by apes).

I was going through a particularly traumatic part of my life from 2018 to 2021 where it really felt like the work world equivalent of Gulag, but I was being additionally tormented with my own agency - a bit like being forced to not only do tasks but learn how to do them in real time where the closest analogy I can think of would be having ‘friends’ take you out on on your 21st birthday, tell you you’re going to chug a full bottle of 151, and if you can’t hold it down that you’ve failed outright as a human being. I had that with coding, where I had to do some heavy applications for people, teach myself the front-end, took on things the company had never done before, in a couple different stretches I almost ended up in the hospital (60mg of Nexium at one point and had to go on a liquid diet for a few weeks, then had a summer where I had to work from the moment I woke up to the moment I went to sleep - seven days a week for 40 hours pay, for survival not income, the feature that caused me said grief the client then said ‘Meh, we don’t need it afterall’, and had another time last year where I felt like everything was shutting down and I narrowly avoided having my digestive track shut down). For the first time in my life I got to see that I was genuinely just meat, that my life had absolutely no value to anyone but me, my parents, some close friends, etc., and what was so bad about it was there was no psychopath in the mix that I could locate, it was more like a big ball of group incompetence that I was being forced to either eat or fail out of programming and get forced back into the career path I had before. It had nothing to do with whether or not I could code, much more to do with whether or not I could code with a gun to my head for several years with very little reprieve.

Buuut yeah, I call 'em the God Games. New Universes are always dark at first, and there’s usually a huge rush for knowledge and thus power, but it seems there’s been a um… “misuse” of that natural cosmic phenomena, having been over-exploited by those simply looking to dominate. That’s the Moloch; the wisdom trap, it’s just the race to become God. Everyone wants to rule the fucking world.

For what our physics are it really seems much more like a feature than a bug. While it’s been about as physically safe a time to ever grow up in the West (no world wars blazing - yet), it’s still been a situation where Christianity gave way to secular humanism and when I was coming up we were on some of the last desperate puffs of John Stuart Mill where in primary school it really felt like it was almost half Scientology in terms of how strongly it was impressed on us that humans are fundamentally good, fundamentally curious, if someone’s mean to you it’s because they were down or misunderstood (ie. hurt people hurt people), and what that seemed to do was turn a lot of people who fit that description into veal, ie. telling people that they’re ‘right’ and that they have nothing to worry about, that the stupidity and crassness will go away. Truthfully it’s life-long. I’ve enjoyed listening to Aaron Clarey / Asshole Consulting recently for similar reasons that I enjoy listening to John Gray - it’s further confirmation that, at least on these metrics, I’m not crazy no matter how many people will still gaslight on this point.

It very much feels like rape, doesn’t it.
Or perhaps piracy, like that phrase from pirates of the carribean; “take what you can, give nothing back”.

I feel like I was so ill prepared that I effectively brought a philosophy book, or a guitar, or a synthesizer to a gun fight and got red-misted. I’m more enraged at just how profoundly and routinely I was lied to.

The rape equivalent would be more like realizing that I have a lot of ‘best self’ aspects that can’t be worn in public and are very limited in how they can be developed based on how much low-register activity there is and if I have any proper definitions of ‘evil’ one of them is the lesser consuming / cannibalizing the greater. That of course happens, with cold indifference, thanks to certain aspects of how our substrate works.

Another good way to ask that question might be, what’s the best way to be a slave if you can’t get out of being one? Fight to put the best slavers in power perhaps? No one likes games where you have to focus on choosing the lesser of evil lords forever, unless perhaps you’re at the top.

Another powerful realization I had in the last few years is that depression, particularly the times where it was hitting me the hardest, is best seen as times where my map of reality was much more hopeful than the territory. I noticed that when my map started getting as ugly as the territory depression decreased significantly. In that sense there are adaptations that make a lot of sense, I just want to pick and choose as carefully as I can because I like to continue evolving, at the worst be forced to move laterally, really don’t want to devolve if I can help it.

and I’m glad you brought this up, cuz although it’s very fun to say that life is nothing but a dream or a joke or a game, thats an absolute dogshit philosophy when the “aight I don wanna play anymore” just means that you die. That sounds an awful lot like “real life” to me. Lol, it is all just a matter of psychological interpretation though. Some mindsets work better for certain things tho; at the end of the day I just hope people stop relying on things like religion so much in order to have hope.

There are some people who do just get left alone, or they can spend their lives - even in minor competition with others - where they still keep most of their protective shell and remain ‘blue pilled’ on the Darwinian side of life. The trouble seems to come in when someone is ‘different’ in a way that appears to people as if it’s related to completely different neurological alignments. The way people seem to sort that out is that there’s an unspoken rule that your personality is supposed to built up by sheer copying of others (a very path-of-least-resistance Daoist sort of thing), and if you have to take any time to build it up from first principles that gets taken as a signal that you had some type of genetic malady that you had to work around - hence it’s read as a signal of mutation and hits society’s eugenics filter which is vicious and will try to stomp you out at any turn.

I can’t really comment on the NDE and Qliphoth thing; like I said before depending on a persons cosmic history, ancestry, brands, blackmails, etc, you’re gonna connect to different parts of things. I haven’t thus far recieved a ton of good stuff from, well, any magic system or old religion and whatnot. (a few exceptions but it’s unimportant). At first I thought it might be because I actually consider myself as being The Dragon in a way, and also have the “right” to claim any name as my own if I use a system. So, if I were to use qliphoth that means that I have to eat anyone who says I’m not the whole of the tree XD
Now I’m pretty sure that’s actually totally normal, idk if I keep misinterpreting what the etiquite is for using old magic systems or what, but honestly it might just be a lot of old war truama jazz from aeons of tragedy. Whoops, sorry, the universe has PTSD and is losing its shit, come back later type of dealios? Idk, im still confused about it. War timelines and things like gods or religous systems are real screwy issues for me. Not sure how much a personal thing it is; it looks and feels real but i know it sometimes isn’t.

Yeah, it sounds like you’d just be using something like that as integration work or seeing like there’s anything in yourself that you wanted to microscope in and examine with that tool kit. I feel like my work with the Qliphoth, aside from tactics and weapons training or giving myself more firmware options is akin that as well.

Farming is where shit gets weird when it comes to lower beings, and Enlightenment is where shit gets weird when it comes to higher beings, cuz then you’re aware you’re not either predator or prey in truth, more just a “godform” or whathaveyou.

Farming is where the situational imbalance of power is great enough that you can truly treat an organism as standing reserve. The factory farming of animals is the place where the treatment really shocks people - in how nakedly psychopathic it is.

It’s been my personal experience, and philosphy, that if it seems like a giant chunk of the universe is about to be eaten by monsters or perhaps transformed into a giant wall of cancer, it’s not the evil that’s the problem. Reality, aka what people can mutually agree as being a solid structure to stand on in leu of “its all just a dream bro” or “you’re the dreamer of the cosmos”, is run by PEOPLE and the natural enviornment. Tech can play roles, but if tech “governs” it inevitably will become toxic.
This is to say that a cosmic society of sorts ought to find it’s stride, because even if you are capable of doing something all by yourself it’s usually best not to when it comes to “reality” beyond yourself.

IMHO it’s Darwinian evolution, as an engine, itself. In one hand it was able to build our sensory organs and capacities from the ground up, on the other hand it only plays linear extraction games, ‘young male syndrome’ is permanent when you’re nobody until you’ve shown that you can bend reality, being able to ‘bend reality’ with resources, financial success, accrued status, has quite often a lot to do with when you’re born and whether the pickings are easy (for example the baby boomer generation - for what difficulties they did have - had a very different set of possibilities they could tap into than millennials and gen z, where the environment was largely strip mined and sure you could become an entrepreneur out of high school or dropping out of college early if you had those attributes but its comparatively fewer people).

I remember someone mentioning in an NDE that they saw, around the Ancient of Days or whatever they were seeing, universes as marbles and this as a relatively small and dark one. It’s almost like each of these has it’s own set of physics and thus these are the physics that we have and likely will have for a long time. What’s been challenging for us is that rapid progress also causes both big opportunities and big asymmetries, also good chances of making ourselves extinct through competition, but it’s clearly not what equilibrium looks like. I really find Markovian mathematics fascinating, ie. in that when inputs get run through a system enough times with set weights the results stabilize, and Markov chains seem to be of a variety that can penetrate the iterative nature of biological systems and some of the rules that perhaps govern them. Somewhat in line with the old Buddhist curse we’re perhaps living in ‘interesting times’ where its all accelerated more than usual.

[Mulberry]

@MagickAndBreakz

I’m wondering - is the best terminology for the most proximate interested, Holy Guardian Angel, guides, ancestors? I’m wondering from anyone whose probed around up there if they’ve gotten any sense as to which of these groups, structs, or groups of structs are working with us the most and where you can find your best ‘I’ll help you help me help you’ relationships?

@MagickAndBreakz

The thing I have to clarify as well to avoid naivety, I get that predator / prey relationships are a fundamental of this cosmos.

Depends where you look… There are groups that are not predator/prey or transactional. The reason being, the human project, (as I call it, which is the project to get an ascended lifeform out of humanity), is kind of their design, it’s their project, so it’s in their interests that it succeeds from that perspective.
As above so below goes beyond merely base nature and into the intellectual, artistic and so forth,we reflect all these.

Don’t forget, like attracts like. If your energy is in predator/prey that’s what you’ll find. If that’s not what you want, change your energy up, and your world will change.

On Earth these groups are represented in the “mystery schools”, such as the Gnostics, The Cathars, the Templars, the Rosicrucians, the Anthroposophists, the White Brotherhood and the Druids. These are in contrast to the “LHP schools” such as the AA of Crowleys design, which are dog eat dog, every man for himself.
Off Earth they are represented by the ascended masters, who are humans who have ascended to a level and stay in Earths sphere to help others, the Bodhisattvas, the Saints, some kinds of ET and the Devas/Shining Ones.

It is my opinion, that the Goetia, the Watchers and the “Angels” are part of the latter group. So to answer the question, those are the ones you want to work with for getting the best help.

My personal opinion on the HGA is that it’s your own higher self. Which means, a higher being that has incarnate as human leaves part of it’s consciousness connected to source at a deep level, so it’s possible to remember and connect to that part of you and become whole once more… wholey you… or, “holy”.

I personally don’t use the “godform” concept as it seems to put the thing backwards, though maybe I misunderstood it… Many of us are higher entities who have taken a human form not the other way around, and I don’t think you can get to be human if you’re not already somewhat evolved, because these vessels are not beginner level and take a skilled “pilot”. This aligns with some philosophies that hold we incarnate from beings like insects and small animals on up to get here.

I don’t see the higher self as gendered, or at least mine isn’t. The writer Drunvalo Melchizedek said in the 80s, that humans incarnate alternately from male to female, so if your higher self is gendered and that’s true, you only have a 50/50 chance of being the same gender anyway. While this sounds a tad hokey to me, at the same time I did a quick survey of the human lives I remember and it actually bears out, at least chronologically speaking, but I’m not sure experience sequence and chronological sequence are the same thing.

To help the cosmos, the best thing to do now, imo, is get on with doing the one job you have being human, which is to ascend and remember who you really are including your past lives and higher dimensional goals. That’s it. From there you can get on the same page with the galactic consciousness and get bigger jobs.

@MagickAndBreakz

Christian Sundberg, first person I’ve heard to make a very specific and decisive claim about this and he claimed that the place people go when they have NDE’s has different registers, different causal dynamics

Yes. It’s not a 3D physical place so why would the physics of matter apply anyway? It’s the same place you can get to when lucid dreaming or in trancework/vision work/ shamanic practice.

@MagickAndBreakz

if Lilith and Lucifer are like Nuit and Hadit in Thelema

I don’t think so. I don’t think babalon is lilith either as posited by @ChristosSophia in anoher thread recently. I suspect Hadit is Ba’al Hadad, though I could be wrong… aka just Baal or Bael. The Ba’al part means “lord” so his name is actually Hadad. Kind of like Ba’al Zebul (Lord of those who can fly), only his nickname is beelzebub, so there’s no confusion. The Sumerians and Akkadians etc called a lot of their gods Lord/Ba’al, so there’s many more than that. Jesus is another Ba’al for the same reason. Humans just love to give fancy titles to the skilled and enlightened. Master, Sifu, Guru, Duke, Marquis, King etc etc.

@Tekidor

What’s the difference between vampirism and parasitism anyway?

Absolutely nothing, imo. Burglars and thieves of all kinds are parasites, for the same reason, and if you look up the definition, it makes perfect sense. “A being that gains from another causing harm in the process”.
Btw companies can be parasitic. They are symbiotic to start with it’s a simple step to take more than it’s worth.

@Tekidor

what’s the best way to be a slave if you can’t get out of being one?

“Live free or die”… There’s a school of thought that says, that’s what ends up happening when spirits stop incarnating on a planet because there’s no hope for ascension. Life has a purpose, and it’s not to simply exist in any way possible. So, fail and humanity simply dies out in favour of species with better prospects for spiritual evolution. It takes many thousands of years to get there, but apparenlly this happens, thousands of other attempts on other planets have also failed, so it’s not entirely unexpected. Survival of the fittest applies.

@Tekidor

sex is nature’s leverage, it’s never going away unless humanity decides they wanna go a truly synthetic way.

Synthetic doesn’t work either: the greys made that clear: or at least the ones who are us who did this in a future timeline. I’m not a fan of their approach and it seems to have backfired, as there’s issues with cloning tech we already know that can’t be overcome without the dna mixing that happens in normal reproduction.
Part of the problem is dna damage and telomere shortening is also cloned, where in normal reproduction the dna is reset to new. Clones are born old. Do that for a few generations and what have you got? A dying race. Hence the idea they were coming back in time to take fresh dna from us. Don’t know how much is true or if it worked. It’s interetsing to think about

[NeoFightTheNyophite]

Greetings mine brother (or sister) who has bid me to return to the forum after almost a year estranged. I have come to share what I know on the subject, and also to provide a warning. The chances are that we will speak once or twice in this thread, and then never more, for I am no longer want to share what I have learned with the common people and practitioners. In time if you continue down these paths you might understand my reasoning for such.

Do not worry about names. You already can feel them and are aware, names will only be a restriction. Often from them you will receive titles, but they are as poetic as they are formal, and are far from stagnant or exclusionary in their meaning (as if you are named Bob, you are implicitly NOT named Edward). Understand your relationship with them is not that different from an individual cell in your bodies relationship with the consciousness that you refer to as yourself.

You are a series of node points, connected by tunnels of energy. This structure is a fractal, and each node point that you are comprised of is in itself a complex system. You likewise form a node point for larger and more complex systems. Yes, we are individual humans, but we are also cells from the perspective of the universal human consciousness. Such a web of codependence should be treated fluidly in it’s examination and definitions. You are not defining a rock, you are defining energy which exists on an entire spectrum of states of being, which only currently manifests as a solid object sitting in place.

You say: “Darwinian game theory isn’t just a problem on our planet”, but I will inform you, it is only a problem to those who cannot see past it. Like everything else, war, struggle, strife are illusions. We are ALL connected, as you have let on to understanding. When you have a cancerous growth what do you do to it? You destroy it. I am the meat I eat. I am the wood which in fire warms me. We are the very thing which precedes all existence. War is only war because you have bound yourself to see it that way. A simple thing to do as we are trapped in these shells, but you are called to see beyond… why should one cell in your body benefit at the expense of the totality of your flesh? No, that is not correct.

As for the watchers, the “genderless” watchers. I know exactly who you speak of. If you are aware of them know you have been in their radar for quite some time. And so I am brought to my warning. There are those who would seek to subvert your path, pervert your purpose based on their own vision of how things are. By those forces which surround you, by the unspeakable names, and by our power I command you to resist. Even if I were to succumb to such manipulation, and wax to you with tongue of silver and honey, I command you to resist. Your purpose is far to bright, and far to great to let anyone divert you from it. There are many in this forum who would seek to do so, most without realizing but not all. Except this gift of distinguishment, and see truly what each person wishes from you. Allow others to steer the wheel, and know that it is in vain, for you move the direction you must.

For now this will end my communication. I look forwarding to reading any responses you may have, and if appropriate I will continue to post. I hope this that wall of a post is not seen as unwarranted or too direct. Consider this your official acceptance into the “higher aggregate cognition”. Pay attention to your dreams in the following weeks.

[MagickAndBreakz]

On Earth these groups are represented in the “mystery schools”, such as the Gnostics, The Cathars, the Templars, the Rosicrucians, the Anthroposophists, the White Brotherhood and the Druids. These are in contrast to the “LHP schools” such as the AA of Crowleys design, which are dog eat dog, every man for himself.
Off Earth they are represented by the ascended masters, who are humans who have ascended to a level and stay in Earths sphere to help others, the Bodhisattvas, the Saints, some kinds of ET and the Devas/Shining Ones.

TBH, so far, I feel like the biggest struggle is to find guidance I can trust. I’ve been in Rosicrucian and Golden Dawn diaspora groups. Lovely people, I felt like I was in something like a more mystical version of Unitarianism, just that little of it lead anywhere and it was deeply saddening to understand that most of the people who’d been there 30 or 40 years were little different than when they’d stepped in, and that the most interesting people were that interesting when they walked in the front door (ie. the whole idea that esotericism of that sort should radically change your capacities and understandings - I saw no sign of it). I left those groups, on good terms, mainly because I increasingly saw a gentle cul de sac for retirees to stay busy in their golden years and I’m too young, under too much stress and economic conflict, for that to serve its purpose (not about being grabby, more about being almost 43 and living at home still because I got steadily screwed from the time I graduated college and I’m hoping to be something, one of these days, other than the guy who people would ask questions of and take copious notes on what ‘not’ to do based on where I ended up).

Don’t forget, like attracts like. If your energy is in predator/prey that’s what you’ll find. If that’s not what you want, change your energy up, and your world will change.

I’ve also heard some people say that if higher vibrational beings, proportional to humanity, come here, they’ll be constantly attacked, have terrible luck in their lives, and end up getting screwed seven ways from Sunday, really end up treading water at best and not making it at worst. I have no clue whether or not that explains my own history (being on the spectrum, for what that’s worth, is at least part of it but I’d add - anything that’s not Machiavellian probably gets targeted whether it’s higher vibrations or anything else which would fit in the bucket of being ‘different’ in any way, shape, or form that isn’t weaponized).

My personal opinion on the HGA is that it’s your own higher self. Which means, a higher being that has incarnate as human leaves part of it’s consciousness connected to source at a deep level, so it’s possible to remember and connect to that part of you and become whole once more… wholey you… or, “holy”.

That’s pretty much what I was taught everywhere I went. I tend to wonder then if the godform, ‘body of light’, etc. is an etheric construction, a technology or ‘tool’ that can be used at various times and yield more optionality. Regardless of what’s happening it seems like we come here in one of two states depending on perhaps very different starting premises: 1) we first incarnate here naive, unskilled in this ruleset (even if we’re masters somewhere else) and have to grind for hundreds even thousands of lifetimes to ‘get it’ or 2) we bounce around between different bodies, there’s nothing to ‘learn’, and ‘love is all that matters’ is so much the issue that the idea of the alchemical Great Work is more of a palliative for when we’re getting smashed by circumstances and have to do something in order to not get bitter or go evil or insane from the pain of high-leverage, high-cost, and deeply punishing contradictions.

I don’t see the higher self as gendered, or at least mine isn’t. The writer Drunvalo Melchizedek said in the 80s, that humans incarnate alternately from male to female, so if your higher self is gendered and that’s true, you only have a 50/50 chance of being the same gender anyway. While this sounds a tad hokey to me, at the same time I did a quick survey of the human lives I remember and it actually bears out, at least chronologically speaking, but I’m not sure experience sequence and chronological sequence are the same thing.

I think it’s a slightly different claim than actually ‘gendering’ your higher self. It’s a bit more like, if you’re early on the esoteric path (like this is your first or one of your first incarnations doing it), most of what you’ll experience will be Jungian at best. A lot of your ‘id’ in the Freudian sense is housed in your anima/animus. In a lot of ways your anima/animus will be a primary vehicle of communication between conscious and unconscious. This isn’t pure form HGA, it might be something more like an artifice that your HGA creates with your unconscious and perhaps takes unmanifest but high quality traits that have been excluded for external adoption by your ego because the outside world won’t allow it, and it will fashion a tool for communication out of that. Where that also makes sense is something Mark Solms said about emotion and internal stirrings in general, which made a great deal of sense based on my own internal experiences, that when these aren’t directly serving a relationship to environment they’re serving a homeostatic function - ie. self-balancing. Trying to tread water gently and in line with your brain’s biological needs is part of why it would speak through the counterbalance.

Another thing I remember from BOTA - Key 6: The Lovers. Adam looks at Eve which looks at Raphael. Adam can see Eve, Adam Can’t see Raphael but Eve can see Raphael, Raphael can see both. Maybe in a completely different state of evolution or unfoldment that’s not required or Eve is an entirely clear lens but until that point Raphael is probably concealed and articulated though anima/animus.

To help the cosmos, the best thing to do now, imo, is get on with doing the one job you have being human, which is to ascend and remember who you really are including your past lives and higher dimensional goals. That’s it. From there you can get on the same page with the galactic consciousness and get bigger jobs.

We’re in a fight as humans over the intermediate goals that can allow us to avoid the domination of others long enough to have the sovereignty to get that done. Short of that Moloch eats us. In Moloch’s feast that’s where the concerns over x-risks (nuclear, synthetic biology, AI, etc.) come to the forefront.

I don’t think so. I don’t think babalon is lilith either as posited by @ChristosSophia in anoher thread recently. I suspect Hadit is Ba’al Hadad, though I could be wrong… aka just Baal or Bael. The Ba’al part means “lord” so his name is actually Hadad. Kind of like Ba’al Zebul (Lord of those who can fly), only his nickname is beelzebub, so there’s no confusion. The Sumerians and Akkadians etc called a lot of their gods Lord/Ba’al, so there’s many more than that. Jesus is another Ba’al for the same reason. Humans just love to give fancy titles to the skilled and enlightened. Master, Sifu, Guru, Duke, Marquis, King etc etc.

TY. When I say that I’m going more directly from Temple of Ascending Flame and their correspondences in the ToD / Qliphoth. My take on Lilith seems to be that she has a lot in common with Kali, and a funny thing happens with Kali standing on top of Shiva or Lilith mounting Adam, it’s a bit like cosmos mounting man and pounding lessons / learning into him cognitively. The old fashion associations with Lilith as the Darwinian side of nature, that Lilith was untamed but Eve was domestic (ie. agricultural revolution), and I still keep in mind whoever did the video for Pearl Jam’s ‘Do The Evolution’ where someone was really chewing on the issues of Darwinian evolution, Lilith, Lilith as an aspect of Shakti / Shekinah as such that it had taken on a regional dialect and customs.

I can’t say I’ve met any of these entities face to face. The closest ‘possible’ was an intense encounter which what seemed like a syncretic entity - ie. Mary/Isis/Sophia, very much like the ascended master Mary-like apparition in the painting Clemence Isaure and the Troubadours. Even there, where I’m at, I know something showed up and showed its intent (these beings are beautiful albeit a bit condescending - like you might have many questions and they’d rather play glare like they’re seeing a baby cousin - ‘I’m going to get you!’, they tickle you for a while, beam edification, they’re gone, and while it’s a pleasant experience it still leaves you with the same questions and its like having that friend who’s a CEO somewhere, you’re curious about the nuts and bolts of what that’s like, and he changes the topic, makes a bunch of jokes, chases the conversation off that path).

The biggest struggle is getting actionable information and feedback that’s worth anything. When I was less experienced I tried mediums - they were nearly always wrong, even if or when they were some of the most vetted. Reading tarot for myself didn’t yield a lot because my tendency is to read the cards symbolically rather than representing people and that level of abstraction makes it difficult to narrow possible interpretations or vet whether a hand actually came to pass.

[MagickAndBreakz]

Do not worry about names. You already can feel them and are aware, names will only be a restriction. Often from them you will receive titles, but they are as poetic as they are formal, and are far from stagnant or exclusionary in their meaning (as if you are named Bob, you are implicitly NOT named Edward). Understand your relationship with them is not that different from an individual cell in your bodies relationship with the consciousness that you refer to as yourself.

I think you’re saying that these functions are much more fungible and less fixed? That sort of suggests that the ToL / ToD models would be arbitrarily limiting and are closer to a distorting Ptolemaic intellectual crutch (my words of course, not yours). Let me know whether or not that sounds right - I’m open to that interpretation, I do often feel like Tree of Life / Tree of Death are just maps one can follow for certain experiences but I have a difficult time committing to anything more precise than that because I don’t have reason to believe that I could be sure of any answers beyond that.

You are a series of node points, connected by tunnels of energy. This structure is a fractal, and each node point that you are comprised of is in itself a complex system. You likewise form a node point for larger and more complex systems. Yes, we are individual humans, but we are also cells from the perspective of the universal human consciousness. Such a web of codependence should be treated fluidly in it’s examination and definitions. You are not defining a rock, you are defining energy which exists on an entire spectrum of states of being, which only currently manifests as a solid object sitting in place.

The fractal relationships part takes me down a particular road to Michael Levin, Karl Friston, Donald Hoffman, the work Michael Levin is doing where he’s clarified that there are bioelectric templates that guide embryo cell differentiation, he’s demonstrated how it works with flatworms, and consciousness itself as it relates to matter seems to have a holographic relationship (mostly from self-balancing but it seems like root tendencies, unless very sharply and narrowly disrupted - like with Phineas Gage. Karl’s discussed Markov Blankets, ie. the permeable barrier between internal and external, and how disequilibrium systems are able to externalize entropy through respiration, eating, the ‘Free Energy Principle’ which is both surprise mitigation and also the idea that we raid whatever energy sources we can find in the commons in a multipolar traps manner as a part of how disequilibrium systems operate. Donald Hoffman is then the guy who’d say that Darwinian evolution hid truth from our eyes in that it’s primary goals are a very narrow set of fitness payout functions and after a time optimization for those functions selects against truth rather for truth because it (my words) deforms whatever actors are involved into taking the shape that allows them to take immediate environmental payouts faster than anyone else (which sound like the best description of algorithmic social-climbers I’ve heard to date).

You say: “Darwinian game theory isn’t just a problem on our planet”, but I will inform you, it is only a problem to those who cannot see past it. Like everything else, war, struggle, strife are illusions. We are ALL connected, as you have let on to understanding. When you have a cancerous growth what do you do to it? You destroy it. I am the meat I eat. I am the wood which in fire warms me. We are the very thing which precedes all existence. War is only war because you have bound yourself to see it that way. A simple thing to do as we are trapped in these shells, but you are called to see beyond… why should one cell in your body benefit at the expense of the totality of your flesh? No, that is not correct.

At a minimum it’s a stable and, so far, unsolvable problem for people who are trying to think of systems, technologies, etc. that help take both more full accounting of complex systems and attempt the least invasive improvements to the landscape which then, being universal, are too general to serve well as a new vector for race-to-the-bottom dynamics such as social media, cell phones, improved mining equipment, or really anything that tightens pareto distributions, grows inequality, and puts the road to Lords and serfs, techno-feudalism, etc. on jet fuel.

As for the watchers, the “genderless” watchers. I know exactly who you speak of. If you are aware of them know you have been in their radar for quite some time. And so I am brought to my warning. There are those who would seek to subvert your path, pervert your purpose based on their own vision of how things are. By those forces which surround you, by the unspeakable names, and by our power I command you to resist. Even if I were to succumb to such manipulation, and wax to you with tongue of silver and honey, I command you to resist. Your purpose is far to bright, and far to great to let anyone divert you from it. There are many in this forum who would seek to do so, most without realizing but not all. Except this gift of distinguishment, and see truly what each person wishes from you. Allow others to steer the wheel, and know that it is in vain, for you move the direction you must.

The way I’ve come to think of the kind of thing you’re saying above is this - stick with your moral compass, don’t let anything throttle you off of your moral compass. It’s the only trustworthy guide you have. I also find myself particularly skeptical when something is trying to bowl me over with seduction and hypnosis against facts, against externalities, against morals, etc. and I’ll take that as either a part of me having given up and trying to push that same defection upward and hijack my egoic self or, perhaps, beings as you’d suggest that really want to use me one way or another.

To that last point I think of just how many NDE sort of ‘white light’ spiritual gurus who’d tell you ‘Do whatever they’re suggesting you should do - even if it seems evil, it’s ultimately right’. Hearing those people that factor within me often lights up and wants to rekindle its seduction and domination. My answer to such gurus would be ‘Okay, do you want to live my consequences, or the consequences for other people involved? No…? Okay, that’s what I thought.’

If a suggestion or impulse both doesn’t make sense to me in any long range way and the costs of its suggestions are all deeply / profoundly ‘real’ and the only bate it has is bombing me with pleasure or seduction, I see that as nothing more than an opportunity to borrow the pleasure it’s throwing at me for seduction and mine that to get extra work done - ie. deplete and vampirize its attempts to manipulate me by bending that impulse to my own ends.

Where this gets circular and confusing for me however - pleasure and seduction / suggestion attacks were never more intense for me than when I was going through deeply traumatic experiences over significant stretches of time where I had to work 80+ hours per week. That situation, more than suggesting spiritual attack, reminds me more of a homeostatic system trying to pull every stop it had to keep me alive, and so it very well could have been nothing more than my system management node needing to balance deep trauma with enough pleasure to keep me going all the while knowing that I’d never act out the levers I was pulling in the real world. In that context what was hitting me was quite likely my own kundalini being sent up the way politicians sometimes tap strategic petroleum reserve in emergencies.

So in a way - back to square one. It can be very difficult to read because a set of symptoms could be coming from very, very different sources and have equally divergent intentions.

None of this is to bat down anything you said, just that it’s maybe clarifying for me that I have to run these things through a biological and Jungian / Darwinian filter first before I can rule out more proximate causes to things like the survival-critical nature of homeostasis. It’s then trying to map what feels / tastes / walks different from those more readily explained factors.

[NeoFightTheNyophite]

You make good points, which leads me to believe you are mostly understanding what I have said. Fungible I think is a suitable word to describe these mechanisms, as at the core what we are trying to get at is a state of mutability. It is perpetually a matter of perspective, whether you look at a human and see one thing or whether you see a component of some greater thing. And of course that greater thing can quite literally be an infinite number of other things. Whether it is the shared consciousness between you and the keyboard, you and your family, or you and the collective human mind, it does not matter, they are all equal possibilities.

You are correct also when you mention needing to run these ideas through different personal filters you hold. To communicate with things that can’t reasonably know the language you speak, a complex process of translation must occur, and no idea can be simply inserted into a mind. Your mind must use the tools already available to it, and by proxy trigger the idea through a serious of associations. That is to say that the mind must do the work to bring the message to a state that it can be understood clearly, and when a potential translation has occurred that energy signal may be compared to the initial signal you were given.

The most important aspect of this process is your minds understanding of symbols and ideas. Some of these are totally personal to you, some you share with your peers, some your family, and some with the collective unconscious. Jungian and Darwinian concepts can be quite powerful for these tasks, especially as they are fairly well understood and accessible. Just be aware that they are just a “tool-set”, and not the end all be all tools. And remember, that you also share a consciousness with the tools, and that they are also a part of yourself.

I wish most for you to be able to see that, like you said, things like the Tree of Life are simply maps, and their validity depends on how strongly you associate yourself with them. This is the nature of so much of our existence. What you are bordering on are the concepts behind chaos magick, that beliefs are power, but become limiters when we are stuck with them unable to change them. It is a path I would consider myself having traveled well; the sum of my knowledge gained from the venture is Nothing. That is there is No truth, No reality, No Nothing. Beliefs are simply the clothes we wrap ourselves in, of which without we would have no shape.

I have little more to say on the topic of Darwinism, and the ever present threat of war and destruction that we reap on each other and our environment. I agree yes, solutions must be found and improvements must be made, but I would be careful not to slip into concepts such as celestial war, and oppressive esoteric systems that no one can definitely prove exist. I mean to conjure ideas prevalent in Buddhism. These things are illusions. Yes, your body might be pierced and grow cold, but it is one of the many you will occupy. It is but one hair on your head. I will not tell you this is your solution, but mine was understanding that I am a being of spirit, and it would be inappropriate of me to delve to far into the world of man. If I wish for something I talk or work with the spirits, and I trust it will be. Immediately? No, but to wish for immediate change is folly.

I speak not of just your moral compass, but all of your compasses, most especially in this context your spiritual one. And yes, you are your only trustworthy guide. That is precisely what I meant to say. It is more complex though than just a question of morals. Imagine for a moment that one guru tells you Red is your lucky color, and another guru tells you Green is your lucky color. Neither have a deep moral or psychological impact on you, but both are attempts to filter your life through external force. If it rings true with you good, but it is very important to take the time, even for innocuous things, to take a look at your compass and see if they align.

You reference a lot of ideas and concepts I am not quite familiar with, being not all that well read, but with any luck I understood everything correctly and my reply makes sense.

[MagickAndBreakz]

I wish most for you to be able to see that, like you said, things like the Tree of Life are simply maps, and their validity depends on how strongly you associate yourself with them. This is the nature of so much of our existence. What you are bordering on are the concepts behind chaos magick, that beliefs are power, but become limiters when we are stuck with them unable to change them. It is a path I would consider myself having traveled well; the sum of my knowledge gained from the venture is Nothing. That is there is No truth, No reality, No Nothing. Beliefs are simply the clothes we wrap ourselves in, of which without we would have no shape.

We do end up with one awful fly trap of a monoculture. It seems like a lot of guys these days, particularly if they’re long term singles, are going ‘minimalist’ in that they don’t buy more than they need and they’re opting out of the social status through possessions game (which is really smart, especially if someone cares about retiring).

If I bounce what you’re saying off of what I know of reality I’d tend to interpret you’re meaning that any sort of monolithic game that connected the same critical dots and built up enough network dynamics could have been ‘the game’, that the ones popular now are nailed in place largely because of network effects (like starting one’s own media company with a different set of rules is hard because the value of Facebook is that everyone’s already there). IMHO that’s the flypaper aspect of network dynamics, it’s also part of why liminal spaces are haunting - you get to feel like you took a wrong turn and lost the tribe or like your instincts failed you at some level to be in that place (while those of us, probably most at BALG and likely all of us in this conversation, have a long standing relationship with liminality and it feels like home where as to 'NT’s it feels like failure and death hence they avoid it at all costs).

I have little more to say on the topic of Darwinism, and the ever present threat of war and destruction that we reap on each other and our environment. I agree yes, solutions must be found and improvements must be made, but I would be careful not to slip into concepts such as celestial war, and oppressive esoteric systems that no one can definitely prove exist. I mean to conjure ideas prevalent in Buddhism. These things are illusions. Yes, your body might be pierced and grow cold, but it is one of the many you will occupy. It is but one hair on your head. I will not tell you this is your solution, but mine was understanding that I am a being of spirit, and it would be inappropriate of me to delve to far into the world of man. If I wish for something I talk or work with the spirits, and I trust it will be. Immediately? No, but to wish for immediate change is folly.

The core warning there - anything one can’t prove exists should be held rather loosely among many, many other hypotheses that fit the same map.

I speak not of just your moral compass, but all of your compasses, most especially in this context your spiritual one. And yes, you are your only trustworthy guide. That is precisely what I meant to say. It is more complex though than just a question of morals. Imagine for a moment that one guru tells you Red is your lucky color, and another guru tells you Green is your lucky color. Neither have a deep moral or psychological impact on you, but both are attempts to filter your life through external force. If it rings true with you good, but it is very important to take the time, even for innocuous things, to take a look at your compass and see if they align.

Yeah, it’s checking in with gut and asking yourself - I’m talking a walk in a local park and I come to a fork, which one can I forgive myself for having taken if it ends up being the more boring of the two, just by how I make my decision at the outset looking at the split in front of me. That part I’ve been doing for most of my life.

[NeoFightTheNyophite]

You understand precisely what I mean, I am glad to have been able to step in and share what I have learned. There is a unique energy about you right now, one I recognize and am familiar with. I would consider myself to be acting as a mouth piece for those energies while in this thread. “Genderless watchers”, a phrase I used in my initial post that I swore I had read in the thread, but that was not posted once. None the less, it is yet another tell tale sign of them. There are powerful allies around you, and they wish to help, you just need to ask them the right questions. They will not provide anything for free, but price can vary wildly.

These “non-enochian watchers”, a very apt term, are only the beginning of what surrounds you. “Higher aggregate consciousness” is another good term, They are ready when you are. I am unsure if I will be posting from here on out. Good luck in your journeys and strivings.

[MagickAndBreakz]

These “non-enochian watchers”, a very apt term, are only the beginning of what surrounds you. “Higher aggregate consciousness” is another good term

I thank John Vervaeke and Jonathan Pageau (on Rebel Wisdom w/ Dave Fuller) for putting a pin in that, it’s a much more descriptive way to use the term - ie. that they’re directly interested in guiding things down here.

There are powerful allies around you, and they wish to help, you just need to ask them the right questions. They will not provide anything for free, but price can vary wildly.

Looking up and praying - ‘Don’t drop me off at the pond’.

[MagickAndBreakz]

I just went off to ‘scry’ my own mind a bit and I did feel a familiar energy.

Taking a shot at describing the agents that comprise it… they make me think of Max Heindel’s ‘Lucifers’ as he described them (in his model these are beings evolutionarily between us and the next angel chorus up, sort of cosmic gen x’ers), that sort of impish and playful white-light presence that rolls in like celestial Russian supermodels floating in on a cloud, I think they present that way because they’re powers of the air and… I’m not sure what people think of William Mistele’s seer anthropology of the four elemental kingdoms, he said that both sylphs and undines really enjoy sort of energetically ‘invading’ a human frame and going into every pore (in this case getting nose to nose with me and asking me to breath her in), playing with possession but not actually doing it. So sylph-like presence but also a bit of a cocaine, Hollywood, and red carpet glamor like they’d listen to Weeknd and similar cough-bottle pop music 24/7 if they could.

No idea whether I’m on the right track with that, if I am great - and I know from experience to proceed with caution because I had a few weeks nine years ago where I was getting maybe an hour of sleep per night in their grip. If I’m totally wrong… well… lets see if we can diagnose whether this is simple interference or an actual problem.

[Tekidor]

Lol. I’m exiited to see where this goes. Let’s have a nicely familiar reunion after the death of old demons yah?

[NeoFightTheNyophite]

Your request is denied. Kindly do not expect or initiate further correspondence.

[MagickAndBreakz]

[sc4r]

It sounds like you need to study some pieces of Advaita Vedanta.
A lot of western magicians are stuck in many ideals that are close to Advaita Vedanta but not quite there yet, that then open up a path to heavy personal gnosis once they study elements of it in comparison with western philosophies.

As for your fears, AI, the new world order, these are things that come from the modern world and our delusions of intelligence. If we do not destroy eachother nature will take its course and set us right, for our betterment or for our worst. Simply allow it. Allow nature to take its course and do not allow the veils of our hubris to cloud your vision with fear of torment.

-Lotan Vovin.

[MagickAndBreakz]

As for your fears, AI, the new world order, these are things that come from the modern world and our delusions of intelligence. If we do not destroy eachother nature will take its course and set us right, for our betterment or for our worst. Simply allow it. Allow nature to take its course and do not allow the veils of our hubris to cloud your vision with fear of torment.

Yeah, there’s the age old conflict where one feels an absolute pressage - as guardian / custodian of their own consciousness and body to solve problems around them, they’ll also be surrounded by people who either won’t solve their own problems or, better, weaponize their own problems to damage or dominate others. That leaves people in a state of dysphoria (whether thinking about their own lives or whether or not to have kids) - rightly so - and the question is do you sneak off to the side, stroke your chin, and ask ‘What baseline incentives are driving this and what would be the least invasive way to tweak it for the better?’, or you can also to the old fashion spiritual aspirant way of just exiting society to whatever degree you can manage (I imagine this was an even bigger incentive back in earlier days because survival itself was so cutthroat that unless you were spiritually cultivating yourself in a bubble you’d be destroyed by anyone who was running in a different game). Those are the only two ‘positive’ reactions I can think of, the first might work if someone really pushes their objectivity and self-control to the limit in terms of forcing their activities to be win-win rather than fame or legacy building, the later is dangerous but just mildly so because it takes a decent person and their influence out of the world and makes the world more vicious by and N of 1.

Also new world order is a topic I haven’t brought up in this thread. What I can say on it though - my big concern about that is Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago. The problem is, no matter who tries it, they won’t have the competence to make it work, and when it fails they’ll need some combination of industrial-grade gaslighting and, if they really get scared and know they screwed it up savagely, they’ll have to grab for the quickest relief that the human limbic system reliably falls for which is Girardian memesis, othering, finding an outgroup to blame, even fabricating a fifth column out of whole cloth (eg. ‘wreckers’), stuff that would almost make Alex Jones blush, and about that time the interrogation, extraction of false confessions, etc. begins because shit must always roll downhill especially when those uphill are gutless cowards. It’s not a tower of metaphysical evil to be afraid of there but rather a tower of human cowardice and incompetence where the incompetent have no natural checks against their own incompetence (save assassination by political rivals litter better, likely even worse, than they are - eg Lenin to Stalin style power transfers) and they also have a massive security and information gathering apparatus at their disposal which is also electrified into doing their bidding when they realize that any pushback or trying to sort facts from fiction will turn their own agency on them. Even without a Stalinist state, looking at Russia under Putin or China under Xi there’s a powerful hall of mirrors effect that supreme leaders of such countries get to enjoy - where they’ll be able to access little or no trustworthy intelligence because everyone’s climbing all over one another both for higher status by saying and doing things that they think will please the supreme leader (indifferent to whether they’re effective or batshit crazy - like spraying airport runways for Covid), and Putin’s invasion of Ukraine and what his people told him, him lacking the grasp of just what terrible / dilapidated shape their military equipment was in (and the oligarchs seeing the military budget as a cookie jar). I try to imagine some type of global system like that lasting more than five minutes without ratioing the quality of life everywhere and collapsing under it’s incapacity to do anything other than try pitching some top-down narrative - almost if not outright impossible.