Iâd followon what Andreeje wrote, the Simon (the usually referred to published book) is something, although it is âhipâ by many writers to bash on it
(there is even an author who has a chapter that gives many reasons it & HPLovecraftâs works donât make sense/canât be real/âso Iâve heard as I know this person, etcâ⌠and then gives his own âdream-inspiredâ works as if his are real(?) which then seem to question his whole comment about HPL
-a cultural things I guess (just as Castenedaâs works are questioned by many, vs specific applications of the underlying âcurrentâ).
Iâd split up relations into 3 groups (sort of as above comment)
- with a 4th being the commenters, that say "Since that Necronomicon stuff 'isnât real here are my ideasâŚ"
1st being HP Lovecrafts (early âsupernaturalâ writings, informed by this Dreams and imagination, thus inspiration or did he âcontact something?â unclear, but he âclaimsâ he didnât intentionally put esoteric ideas in⌠thus he could have tapped something uncon, or actually he could have inserted ideas and just claimed he didnt do soâŚ
mainly in these writings this is a book/text that is referenced, and spoken about by characters as something âpractitionersâ have studied, there are a few sections quoted, but only bits (they paint a world-view, as well as allow tapping a âcurrentâ)⌠there are some internet pages that collect the handful of quotes (a few pages total), which have page numbers in the hundreds, so implying there are many other pages unknown.
second the Simon, which many complain why use that title, while this book says a) it is a publishing of a received document that had this title on it (so just using what was given), and b) stating that the meaning of the name is meant and not explicitly the Lovecraft use (like 2 people with a same name, not implying they are the same person)⌠which others interp it was trying to have a reference to that wellknown intentionallyâŚ
The Simon seems to have refs to Meso-Sumer (but whether to them, or to another system, based on- like Hermetic vs Greek-based⌠some similar references⌠which)⌠which seems to have a few different sections to it, each a different/distinct aspect (ie the 50 names, vs the âbackground-mythosâ section, vs âGate walkingâ, requiring the Watcher summoning, requiring the conjuration of the fire⌠based upon use of an herb⌠not listed)⌠and Iâd strongly contrast, those that âFollow a systemâ (may not all be exactly, but the fundamental components are needed) vs those that were âinspired by a system, but develop something new from itâ⌠I think any using the Gate, and thus the Watcher, can Only be that second developing new, as the first seems to require an unlisted component (unless think it was written incorrectly, some publication even say XYZ works as well?)
and I wonder if the Joshua Free works would be in the first (HPL) or second (in trad of Simonâs manuscript techniqueâs directly) or more so completely on its own? -as the assumption that Simonâs work is Mesopotamian-Sumerian (which may not be directly) but then to interpret all other works that seek to derive and connect with Meso-Sumer systems are therefore related to Simon (and to that Historical-Magickal culture) vs a derivationâŚ
many other writings are neat, but they seem to be in the line of "since all this is made up anyway (implying they question if any Objective Essence/Energetic-currents and-or Entities do exist with this system, or if any do at All?)- therefore just make it up⌠[if one canât/hasnât contacted Entities in a clear fashion, they may believe pretending or actual is the same⌠but when actually connecting, as well as plugging into an Energetic Pattern: do XYZ and over there things click⌠once contact something, then one can feel when there isnât something. -thatâs my sense of many that say, real or imagined whatâs the differenceâŚ] but inspiration, cultural-concept, to work within can be beneficial
so unless your thoughts in the âmythosâ section (which if so rather than some of the more recent writers you might try to understand/read the works of Kenneth Grant (vs the many who subsumed his ideas⌠issue being KG is a bit harder to read, as it seems he actually did the explorations he mentions, which affected how he writes/thinks?)âŚ
vs if you were to approach the Simon works- Iâd look for the essential prereq principles (and decide if you seek to do it âas isâ vs âadapting itâ (in terms of the second it seems EA has referenced Adapting it, and had great success, but as I understand EA actually worked out an underlying logic to the entire before he started and stuck to it, vs some how do a bit of this and of that from the bk, and there isnât an underlying system-supporting their progress through it)
(either of the above one can read much that question- but one can read many comments about how EAâs system doesnât work also⌠as well as a âreceivedâ discovered Grimmoire (as HPLovecraftâs references seem to be Finding/Discovering a Grimmoire via SoulTravel/Dream-Teachings (not a small-dr, but a BigDr as some systems differentiate)âŚ
that may be compared, or may not, to the KoF (and OAA), in terms of the first published Grimmoire by EA (as opposed to BoA which as it explains wasnât âreceived as isâ already written ~KoF, BoA was developed by his explorations)âŚ
thus the question if the Necronomicon you are referring to is either of those two.
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seems my posts end of long so often: more twists and turns and a shorter-concise of referring to popular-understanding vs differences:
anyway a thought after I posted the above was how the principles of the Watcher Rite ties to the Naga-summoning of Indonesian magic in some ways (and perhaps the concept of Lovecraftâs Shuggoth- but that clearly is not the same as the usual imagine-protection as both emphasize the Danger of âthese protectorsâ -
- âThese Guardians, Watchers, care not what they Watchâ, but will walk the circle as long as the requirements are observed. -if they are not followed, beware (the Beings in this text are said, per a ch in that text, to not be banished nor affected by Modern Energies and suchâŚ
âthus are they more real than NewAge PopOccult or less real?â in part determined by the distinguishing of the different types⌠as above The Necronomicon isnât just one thing (unless there is an actual source of all of these?)-