Mundane Means vs. Magickal Means

General Discussion
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I still consider myself very much a novice in magick. But as time goes on, I am finding that “for me” mundane means works much better for obtaining big goals (like money and love) than magickal means. Magick works better for obtaining quick bursts of important knowledge (like how the girl at the grocery store will treat an expired coupon for produce, etc) or influencing a doctor to “word things” a specific way in his notes to get your insurance company to pay for a certain thing.

I guess my main thesis statement is this: “Every goal has a set of tools that work best. For the the ‘big’ goals, use mundane means. For ‘secret knowledge’ and ‘subtle influences’, use magick.”

Any thoughts?

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[quote=“jboy, post:1, topic:9299”]I still consider myself very much a novice in magick. But as time goes on, I am finding that “for me” mundane means works much better for obtaining big goals (like money and love) than magickal means. Magick works better for obtaining quick bursts of important knowledge (like how the girl at the grocery store will treat an expired coupon for produce, etc) or influencing a doctor to “word things” a specific way in his notes to get your insurance company to pay for a certain thing.

I guess my main thesis statement is this: “Every goal has a set of tools that work best. For the the ‘big’ goals, use mundane means. For ‘secret knowledge’ and ‘subtle influences’, use magick.”

Any thoughts?[/quote]
For me it seems the magick and mundane work together for the big goals. Like if I need money, i have a few go to mantras. And usually I end up getting extra hours at work, or something will happen for me to get the money I need.
For love I have no freakin clue. Lol
I think its like anything you gotta be willing to work for what you want. I think magick does help line up the mundane to be at the right places at the right time. Like thursday when i found 20 bucks on the floor. I really needed it too .

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^ Agreed, magick will use seemingly mundane means to deliver, although the probability of them happening otherwise is usually close to zero, in most cases.

But the issue isn’t how much probability was defied, more whether or not yuou gfot your desired result!

[quote=“jboy, post:1, topic:9299”]I guess my main thesis statement is this: “Every goal has a set of tools that work best. For the the ‘big’ goals, use mundane means. For ‘secret knowledge’ and ‘subtle influences’, use magick.”

Any thoughts?[/quote]

Would you expect a medical student who was secretly committed to homeopathy, and who therefore had dedicated part of his time to disproving allconventional medicine, to be able to get the same results using a scalpel as someone who had been studying surgery with an uncluttered mind for 5, 10, 20+ years?

I therefore politely reject your proposition :slight_smile: - for a start, information like that can be derived using ordinary intuition (subtle perceptions that give an impression which transcends simple analytical thought), and also because me and my old man, and also many people we know (online and off) have all used magick for very big goals, and have changed our lives for the better using them, defying probability in most cases.

I feel as though on some level you STILL don’t entirely believe in magick, and are making statements like this to acquire further proof to back up your own disbelief. That’s fine, but this is probably the wrong place to ask for that kind of “proof”?

3 Likes
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Well I’m a nice looking guy. Whit zero swagger skills.I use magic to attract be more friendly.and liked.true riches peoples dint do magic.and the others tat do.still not rich.just keep practicing.

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Lady Eva-- I feel my faith in magick is doing fairly well. I have just been reflecting on my conversations with a Christian friend. He has been antagonizing me about why I don’t just wave my hand and bring myself riches, etc. I’ve been telling him that magick doesn’t work that way. For certain things like money, you still need to work smart/hard using mundane means. Other things (like receiving knowledge) doesn’t require that.

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Fair enough! I still dispute the thesis, but that’s from my results and I’m not going to batter you over the head with 'em. :slight_smile:

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Well… you could wave your hand and get stuff… become a jedi… These are not the droids you are looking for… but hey gimme some cash lol

All joking aside… There are those that are very good at using magical means to get stuff instantly… look at how there are those who are so very influential they get people to give them money sex and love…

Depends on the goal… and the knowledge behind such sure. Maybe that is where you are at… still in “school” obtaining knowledge on the how to… so when it comes time you can be like the jedi. Or like vadar… force choking seems pretty legit to learn.

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jboy you just gave me an idea of eating Mundane Beans vs Magickal Beans

i gotta acquire some Magickal Beans pronto!

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I actually don’t see any difference between them. Magick is mundane as I have stated many times. The only degrees of separation are in the mind and when we remove them we become so much more intimately in tune with magick. Typically to keep it out of the mundane creates a very romanticized idea of magick and makes it very difficult for the magician to make true progress because they have pushed it out of touch with their own day to day reality.

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Asbjorntorvol-I do see basic your point. And I might agree to some degree. But I think that you are grossly overestimating the extent to which “magick” is accepted as “scientific” by mainstream scientists. They would laugh both you and me out of the room if we tried to prove to them that what we believe is “scientific”. So for this discussion, let me define “mundane” as being something that mainstream science would agree to and “magick” as being something which magicians believe is true but is rejected by mainstream science.

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Would science not agree that the conscious mind impresses and idea upon the sub-conscious mind to manifest certain things in our life? Would science not agree that spiritual experiences are a matter of sub-conscious association and interpretation of coincidences that our own sub-conscious mind have manifested in our life? That magick itself is an interpretation of life and that ritual work is merely psychodrama aimed and having our intentions manifest in our day to day life? That the entire universe is made up of particles, protons which are made up of energy and also the majority of that being empty space and thus physical reality is actual an illusion? That our minds decode vibration information to gives us an interpretative experience of something we call “life” hence magick itself is the mind, magick is essentially psychology?

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Yes!

Once you can see the magic in the mundane it all becomes magic.

I’ve been seriously getting into Taoism over the past year, and Wu Wei is trumping every grimoire evocation I’ve done so far.

Don’t get me wrong, evocation is great to get to know a spirit or learn something new. But the blending of the magic and mundane parts of life just works SO much better when it comes to achieving worldly goals.

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In other words, talking to the girl will get you laid faster than hexing her.

…is anyone surprised?

Magick works better for obtaining quick bursts of important knowledge (like how the girl at the grocery store will treat an expired coupon for produce, etc) or influencing a doctor to "word things" a specific way in his notes to get your insurance company to pay for a certain thing.

Sure, to begin with. Little things line up. Then you grow, and the big things line up too. Then you grow a bit more and things start to get wonky. Time breaks. You wake up in strange visions that resemble home, but not quite. Space distorts and you can feel things that aren’t physically there- or so you think.

Your skill in magic is relative to your power. Ultimately, there are no steps, there is just power.

I guess my main thesis statement is this: "Every goal has a set of tools that work best. For the the 'big' goals, use mundane means. For 'secret knowledge' and 'subtle influences', use magick."

Any thoughts?

You’ll never become proficient at dragging the heavens to your feet if you don’t try.

Mundane means are a base, and your power is what determines if you come across a spark on the ground or get picked up by your alien buddies from a past life to get a ride to work.

See, from what I can tell, you’re just trying to explain a variation of the truth that reality is a symbol set, and symbols can be translated to ritual regardless of their original purpose of construction, assuming the symbol is strong enough.

That doesn’t make magic mundane. It makes the mundane magical. You can take the tools of everyday life and use them to weave blessings or curses, yes. But that still doesn’t mean magic is predictable or average in any sense, which is what is implied by the choice of “mundane”.

Sub-conscious?

You don’t intend from your mind’s recesses. You intend from your center.

Power is not a feature of the mind. It is a feature of the spirit.

Power has psychological effects, yes, however it does not come from taxing your subconscious to manifest desires.

Power does more than get you what you want.

Would science not agree that spiritual experiences are a matter of sub-conscious association and interpretation of coincidences that our own sub-conscious mind have manifested in our life?

Science is a way of describing the world.

It describes spiritual experiences in a way that takes the magic out of them.

Science is wrong. The only description that matters is the one you’ve arranged with your assemblage point.

If one wants to choose to describe results as coincidences ascribed meaning by sub-conscious processes, they are free to do so. However, that is a simple, incorrect way of explaining the results of a magical act.

Power is a wild animal that one has to tame and learn the tendencies of. Power is not an artifact of the subconscious one can summon through rituals.

That magick itself is an interpretation of life and that ritual work is merely psychodrama aimed and having our intentions manifest in our day to day life?

Rituals are tools to acquire the necessary states, yes, however magic is not “an interpretation of life”. Sure, one can call it a way of describing the universe.

However, to put it simply, it is the correct one.

Sorcerers don’t agree that “magic is an interpretation of life”. Magic is the engine that life runs on.

Science and faith are very different from actual sorcery.

That the entire universe is made up of particles, protons which are made up of energy and also the majority of that being empty space and thus physical reality is actual an illusion?

See this is the only part of your post I actually agree with. This world is insubstantial, ethereal. Energy hides behind even the smallest portions of this world and as such it is a world of energy first, then objects.

That our minds decode vibration information to gives us an interpretative experience of something we call "life" hence magick itself is the mind, magick is essentially psychology?

…no.

Our minds aren’t the faculty that turns vibrations into perception. That is the assemblage point. The two are not the same.

Magic isn’t psychology, because psychology has limitations.

Magic is the art of changing your perception. Perception is how magic functions.

Ascribing it to psychology is a simple, flawed understanding. Power is law, and is the fabric of this universe. Everything is possible, and by trying to define sorcery through simple lenses will only yield simple paths.

Walk with infinity and you will never cease to be surprised.

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Just to put my 2 cents worth in, I believe it’s like driving a car or flying a plane. At one point in time there were concerns about what would happen if a train moved faster than a certain number of mph (it was 60 I think from memory) because it had not been done. They thought the people on board may be killed at that speed. We now know that won’t happen. I can drive but I can’t fly a plane, I could if I was taught and the information is available easily enough. Anything may seem magikal until it’s explained and then it’s mundane. It becomes a normal part of your life. As for using magik to do things, there are certain things you want to do for yourself. Personally I only look for magikal means to things that either are only experienced using it or when I have exhausted all other means that are mundane. Not going to use it to make coffee but need to use it in another situation where a person won’t talk to me.

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Use a bit of both for best results lol