Interesting question. I think if you are going to communicate with an entity that symbolically have a male/female/nb/whatever type of energy, and you hate that energy, it’s not a good idea to get involved with that entity. For example, a misogynist will surely have trouble communicating properly with Lilith, because there are so many symbolic, spiritual, and even historical implications to it.
I think it’s not even a political issue. Magic is a holistic concept and spiritual creatures are intelligent, they can notice everything.
You could always ask them to appear gender neutral or in a form like the Ardhanarishvara Shiva that’s half and half then it’d be hard for ya to hate cuz your mind would be too busy trying to sort it out (of course that could hinder your magick but if you really have gender issues as a last resort you can always try that anyway if a spirits visual gender appearance is an issue).
Still the Ardhanarishvara Shiva is quite the interesting visual concept
Add: I think interesting enough to derail the hate for a given gender (since it’s both and neither simultaneously).
I can only speak from my own experience with working with the angels and infernal spirits and Goetic spirits. I haven’t worked much with gods in 20 years and my experience there is limited.
Here’s what I think.
Spirits can usually know most things they want to know about a practicioner just by reading the practioner like a book. I’ve had spirits startle me with how much info they had about my past, my agendas, my thoughts about things. But here’s the thing. I really don’t think spirits give a rats ass what we think about most things in general.
If a misogynistic practicioner tried to disrespect a “female” spirit ( especially infernal or Goetic) they’d get checked real fast. I think @Mulberry is right about spirits not having an actual gender per se. I think we project onto the spirits forms that we understand. We read alot about spirits like King Bael and he is obviously a he. Many people find queen Beleth to be a she ( but not everyone) but these are just forms that the spirit is popular for taking.
I think for sure a disrespectful attitude or beligerent behavior towards this class of spirit would be met with rejection and possibly hostility. The spirits definitely understand the concept of respect and if they don’t feel like the respect levels are where they should be they’ll certainly let you know.
Mostly though I don’t think the spirits really care much about how we feel, what we think, what our prejudices and biases are though.
Those spirits I have summoned are some I never have expected to appear in a specific form. I only request that they takes a shape that does not invoke fear in me.
I don’t think misandrists and misogynists literally hate the male or female. I think their bias or hatred is based on what personality they see the opposite gender has in common.
If we take Lillith for instance. A hateful anti-feminist or misogynist invoke Lillith for asking her for advice would she help him if he shows respects and gratitude towards the spirit?
@Kristian , in my opinion that hateful militantly misogynistic practicioner asking Lilith for guidance or assistance is a little strange. If the practicioner were really that hateful towards women kind in general why would he want her to help him.
But for the sake of answering you directly let’s assume he did reach out to Lilith…
Lilith is absolutely not a joke, or a lightweight spirit. She is very very powerful.
If the misogynist somehow managed to keep it together and be very respectful during his interaction with her I’d say there “probably” won’t be any problems. Probably, I’d think her reaction to him would be based on what she knows of him and his behavior towards her. That’s my opinion. I could be wrong.
I personally as a rule am very respectful and diplomatic with spirits in general. I’d be especially careful with her however.
I think he would if he was interested in the practice of vampirism which is her area of knowledge. I have not heard about male demons associated with vampirism.
Mmmn duke Murmur and marquis amon , possibly Earl Bifrons…
Read sphere two of the initiation ritual. You’ll see Amon mentioned there directly. Sphere Two is Gamaliel where Lilith is a Goddess.
But yes I agree with you Lilith would be an excellent choice to impart this knowledge. I’m just saying there are other spirits who teach necromancy and vampirism, however I agree with you about Lilith being a heavyweight champion of the art.
The real question then is if she would be honest to him? Personally, when I summon spirits I do it under the request “be truthful in your answering”. I therefore presume that if the spirit would not be honest it would simply not come as I use offerings with incense to attract it instead of commands.
Yes and your quite within your rights to demand honest answers from the spirits that working with. That’s actually a very good practice.
I find it super hard to believe that Lilith would have a great deal of interest in working with a hateful misogynist.
If he was polite and respectful and did his best to communicate diplomatically with her. She’s still completely within her right to ignore him, not answer his calls, or if he isn’t careful he could be deceived or deluded by her sure.
That’s entirely possible you’re right.
Edit update: I’m very polite in my work with spirits but not all spirits are going to jive right and resonate well with the individual practicioner. Some spirits have slammed the door in my face or told me they weren’t interested in my proposal. It happens.
I’ll be honest, if you read where Lilith comes from, she’s came from folklore that she was Adams first wife. I don’t believe she or Adam ever existed as physical beings, they are egregoric ideas meant to carry a teaching story, and I think you’re trying to push it too far, well beyond what the story was meant to convey.
So no, it’s not a woman, a female demon or anything like that. It’s a collection of energy fed by the human collective imagination. It is sentient because all energy is sentient. The weight of expectation behind that collective in relation to your personal energy is what’s going to shape your experience.
The long and short is, no matter what the opinions here are you won’t know how the version you contact will behave until you ask it yourself.
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If you’re (in general) afraid because you consider that your personality is hateful and disrespectful toward femininity (or we can reverse the gender), maybe don’t evoke them. Your fear isn’t going to make anything better. It will only show that you disrespect a spirit.
In keeping with other posts, I don’t believe many spirits have definitive (human) genders/sexes. Regardless though, if you’re being disrespectful to something a spirit has an attachment to, it might hinder results. Meaning, if you call Lilith, who is called upon a lot for working with and protecting women, knowing you hate women your results might not be what you want.
I suppose it also depends on the purpose. It make sense that if I call on Lilith to harm women it will probably not work because Lilith is called to protect women. However, Lilith is also known as the queen of vampires and is therefor knowledgable about that subject, so it do make sense to me that the misogynist would invoke her if he is interested in the practice of vampirism.
