Making Sense Of Ascension vs Ascent

This is a confusing subject for many and I have found myself confused at times but l think I might know now, what do you guys think of this explanation.

E A Koetting has used the term Ascent to mean one and the same.

In a way it is and isn’t.

E A has got to the top and merged himself with God. That is ascension. It is also ascent as in spiritual growth, but to continue to ascent would mean not to stay there but to come back down. From there you can become a bodhisattva and help others reach God. But if you want to continue to ascent, you would either find growth in helping others reach God, or you can become a dark messiah and lead yourself and others in dark ascent.

So when I hear people say they want to ascend with Asmoday, as lovely as Asmoday is, this sounds odd. Perhaps it is spiritual growth to work with Asmoday, but that’s not ascension and reaching God. Would it still count as ascent without reaching that ascended state first? Can one reach a point of dark mastery where there is no return?

I don’t know why you write that post like there is something to be attained (goal posts are always moved in hell just to make things more frustrating and make it harder or they can also be used to make it easier.)

You know, the oldest stories, about gods. This isn’t some kind of love and light stuff. Jesus descended into hell, so did Ianna. The idea that someone goes down into the underworld to retrieve someone or something, to descend, you know. This seriously is not fun stuff. It is awful and I don’t recommend it at all. Its just the type of thing that sounds cool, and in reality, is not.


“Ascent” is simply the action of ascension, so in a way, yes, it’s pretty much the same thing.

1 Like

Well, assuming Asmoday is the same as Asmodeus/Asmodai, it is not as strange as it may seem. Asmodeus, in his original context (jewish legends), was one of the few demons who not only wandered earth to learn but also routinely went up to heaven to do the same. He was pretty much welcomed up there. In fact, according to the same story, the reason why Solomon bound Asmodeus and dragged him to Jursalem was because Asmodeus was in Heaven studying as opposed to being on earth when it was convient for Solomon. So, to ascend with Asmodeus to me translates to becoming a being that can/does learn from both spheres of reality (the physical and the spiritual/heaven) which could translate to “reaching god”.

Ultimately, demons had a very different view in judaism than in Christianity (as with any system really), especially the “big bad” ones. If you want a great book on the subject, i recommend Baal Kadmon’s “Devils, demons and ghosts in Hebrew tradition”.


@Jastiv I have scuba dived into the hell a few times I normally don’t last more than a few seconds it can seem pretty rough.

@Prophet perhaps but I think we maybe stretching it a little.

@C.Wilson That could explain why Asmoday has an ability to pass as an angel to me on a few rare occasions.

How the hell do you “stretch” the correct definition of something?


Ascension is generally a term for going up, Ascent sort of too, but perhaps coming back down could then be seen as spiritual growth and thus still ascent, working with demons however seems more about descension and power in and through the underworlds, thus a stretch to call it ascension, at least if you are getting yourself stuck in Hell in the process, like becoming a demonic king for example.

  1. As I have said earlier: the definition of ascent is “the act of ascending”. For example, “one’s ascent up the mountain”.

  2. While I do understand what you’re trying to say, “coming back down” would technically be seen as a “descent” since you’re moving “down” and not “up”.


Yeah I think that is what I meant.