Magic is like a bank. They won't loan unless you can afford it

General Discussion
1

This will probably be a controversial opinion but I find it true. Unless you are strong enough to take something on your own all your efforts will worthless. This is only from my own personal observations but I would like to hear yours as well.

If I desire something that is within my reach then it will come effortlessly. If I desire something that is out of my grasp it will remain there until I am strong enough to grab it.

The more powerful I grow the more powerful my magic grows. It is like a bank that will not give you a loan because you need it but because you can afford to pay it back. At a high price of course!

2

I read in David St. Claire that for you to get your wishes to be manifested/approved they should at least benefit 2 persons plus yoursels (3 persons) at least. I heard the same thing on the Silva Method.

For me magick rituals are projects, they will go on depending upon the utility for you and your environment, if it will help you in your spiritual advance plus others, it will go on; if it won’t, try other way.

Besides you gotta work with the spirits along so to manifest your magical wishes (ora et labora; pray and work), if you don’t take the opportunities given by the spirits they go away

3

I admire your idealism but most of my manifestations have been selfish in nature. Often knowing the pain they will bring to others. Ritual is a lie it is not needed to manifest your desires. Those same currents flow through all of us and manifest through our belief. Without true belief nothing will ever come to fruition.

I wish it was as simple as going back to a simple belief system. But I know my own power and that all powers I can access come from me. There are no spirits, demons or angels but they are all only manifestations of my self. I wish there were others to blame but there are not. At least not for me.

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4

Isn’t the ideal of a bank with a loan just another belief system, possibly to justify rituals not working? I’m not making any character stabs here, I’m just wondering how your two philosophies work with one another, and how the analogy of the of magic as a bank isn’t the same sort of belief system.

Also, just because spirits and entities are an extension of yourself doesn’t make then unreal. Everyone is an extension of you, because even when you meet a person, their persona is immediately framed by your consciousness. For example, you may be hearing this and be thinking, “Man, this dude is an asshole,” or “Well, maybe he has a point, he’s pretty smart,” or any number of ideals. However, no matter how sentient I appear to you, and how validated your idea of me is, fact is that your perception of me is only your personal view. The1gza in your world, despite being my own human being, is an extension of your perception about me. So the1gza in your world is just as made up as an entity.

Yet, like entities, if you communicate something that catches my attention, I will answer. If you ask me to do something, I will tell you yes, no, or ask how you want something done. It’s the same with entities, they have the same interaction as we do, their own minds and everything. And they help unlock your power, and give you the ability to have an organic relationship with your power. Doesn’t mean you blame anyone for it, it’s still up to you no matter how many things you allow to influence you. It doesn’t take any responsibility off you or anyone else working with them, despite the inclination to defer responsibility when more factors are working in our lives.

I ain’t tryna shit on you, some folks take stuff like this that way, but I am trying to at least display that there is always more ways to look at it. I’m with you on the self-responsibility and self-reliance, and for one I think that the most powerful magick is direct force intent. Entity work is cool, but for me it’s just a tool to direct force intent manifestation. But a lot of it is a matter of perspective, and while knowing that the entities are facets of you, we have to realize that our entire reality is within us, and projected from within us. So the entities should be treated with as much dignity and respect as an animal, a plant, a human, a car… they are as real as these things, and can feel realer than real once you really get running, you know what I mean?

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Magick is very subjective. Jason Newcomb mentioned something like magick is all in our minds, but we don’t know how far can our minds reach.

My experiences with magick are those, utility to the general environment or to the Great Work is fundamental (I’ve also worked mostly with so called Light Beings) and a minimum of effort on your side, of course.

You won’t get (it will avoid you lots of times) what’s not fundamental for you to reach your Goal/Destiny/Karma and if you get it (insisting after lots of trouble), you’ll discover it’s not what you need.

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[quote=“YogaApprentice, post:5, topic:1676”]Magick is very subjective. Jason Newcomb mentioned something like magick is all in our minds, but we don’t know how far can our minds reach.

My experiences with magick are those, utility to the general environment or to the Great Work is fundamental (I’ve also worked mostly with so called Light Beings) and a minimum of effort on your side, of course.

You won’t get (it will avoid you lots of times) what’s not fundamental for you to reach your Goal/Destiny/Karma and if you get it (insisting after lots of trouble), you’ll discover it’s not what you need.[/quote]

That seems very RHP.

I’d hesitate to speak for everyone, but if I had to guess I would assume most of us are here because what EA teaches appeals to us: that anything can and will come to you if you follow the correct steps, karma be damned.

Ever since I started studying magick, I immediately began to believe that magick is an untapped science, and that one day the secular world will stumble upon what magicians have always known, because despite seeming otherworldly, magick has its on set of natural rules.

So that being said, personally I think failed magick can be explained in one of two ways: either you broke one of these rules (I believe EA refers to it as not properly plugging into the system), or, more likely, you did not exhaust your desire in the ritual. I have always had fantastic results when I “fire and forget”, so to speak. Rituals that I keep revisiting in my mind often produce much slower, or non-existent, results. This kind of mental discipline is extremely hard to master, in my opinion, which is why so many people struggle with magick. Gods know that I’ve cast my fair share of curses, only to see the target soon after and feel the hate and grief return. I think that’s why meditation is stressed so much, it’s fundamental to our workings. Anything else is superfluous.

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I’ve actually seen the exact opposite of what the OP asserted. Magick allows me access to things that I otherwise would not have access to. Were it not for the power of ritual magick, I can confidently say that I’d be living a good deal of my life in prison a few times over, I’d have died at least twice, my daughter very well could have died once, and I’d definitely not have the sort of success that I’ve been having for the last several years, not just in my occult professions, but also in the career opportunities that I’ve had, in the ridiculous financial windfalls that I’ve manifested, in my relationships, in attracting people with specialized knowledge that I want to have to come and teach me, etc.

As far as the bank loan analogy goes: I can go to the bank and take out a pretty massive loan to buy a new house later today if I want to. I can do this because 1. I’ve spent years managing my resources responsibly; 2. I’ve educated myself as to how lending works, and I’ve utilized that system to build a decent credit score; 3. I have enough set aside in private savings in a simple money market account to cover 30ish percent of the loan amount; and 4. I have some powerful invisible friends!

If I went into the bank and said, “Look, I know I haven’t worked hard on managing my money, I don’t usually pay my debts on time, I haven’t bothered to educate myself on how the lending system works, and I’m not going to invest anything on my end… but can you give me a quarter of a million dollars?” What do you think they’ll say?

When you approach magick having educated yourself about how the system actually works, having done a lot of hard work in training yourself to work within that system, and coming to it with your own investments in the outcome, you’re going to have amazing success! If you don’t, you won’t.

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In addition, your approach determines quite a bit.

I used to have the belief that with magick, I could only manifest a few hundred dollars. Then, I was asked to perform a ritual for someone who needed a few thousand. I opened a magick square, and within 24 hours she received a few thousand dollars, with no expectation of repayment, completely unsolicited.

So, I changed my belief system. I believed at that point that with magick I could only materialize a few thousand dollars. And that’s all I was able to do with it.

Due to some very diverse spiritual practices and disciplines that I put myself through, mainly in the Kaulachara path, I realized that there are no bounds. I’d been saying it for years “There are no bounds with the power we bring,” but I didn’t really believe it… until I did. Once I did believe it, once I recognized that my greatest limitation in my magickal success was the limitation that I put on it, I was blown away by what I could do with it.

9

I think you are right. I am mind fucking myself when it comes to this idea. That was why I wanted to put it out there and see if anyone else has experienced this. Now the hard part will be retracting this idea from my mind. For me true belief can be hard to conjure.

[quote=“E.A., post:8, topic:1676”]In addition, your approach determines quite a bit.

I used to have the belief that with magick, I could only manifest a few hundred dollars. Then, I was asked to perform a ritual for someone who needed a few thousand. I opened a magick square, and within 24 hours she received a few thousand dollars, with no expectation of repayment, completely unsolicited.

So, I changed my belief system. I believed at that point that with magick I could only materialize a few thousand dollars. And that’s all I was able to do with it.

Due to some very diverse spiritual practices and disciplines that I put myself through, mainly in the Kaulachara path, I realized that there are no bounds. I’d been saying it for years “There are no bounds with the power we bring,” but I didn’t really believe it… until I did. Once I did believe it, once I recognized that my greatest limitation in my magickal success was the limitation that I put on it, I was blown away by what I could do with it.[/quote]

10

As I see it, for example, if you’re in a position of homelessness and bad hygiene and make an evocation to have a beautiful girlfriend, before you can reach her, the evocation will work turning up side down your live so you’ll have everything you need to recieve such a girlfriend.

So, I don’t think is much as a bank stuff but, the demons or angels, or whatever entity you work with, wll not just bring you someting, but transform your life in a way you can recieve it. If you already have it near you, it may come immediatly but if not, it may take until the arrangement get ready, it may take some time depending on your beliefes, but the very onw process may include the situations in wich those beliefs will be destroyed.

When it comes to the ritual is basically: magick trance, interaction with energy/entity/whatever, and close.

Many of the ritual doings are basically to achieve the trance in order to intereact (consiouslly) with energies and entities.

Also as people, entities exist beyond our extension, and our vision of them is also different from them as they really are. There is a stage of human perception in wich you’re basically always interacting with images on your mind, or just opinions. Until you see that, you will not be able to really catch a glympse of how someone else really is, and that is also the perception of godliness of everyone arround you, and of course in yourself.

Yeah, very agree. Exhaust of the desire, I read something similar in a web about mudras, the guy from india was a mudra doctor and said that there was two rules in life, “We get what we don’t want, and we don’t get what we desire”, basically because the universe do not understand the “Don’t” in a phrase like “I do not want to fuck Megan Fox” and only understand “I want to fuck Megan Fox”, and in the desire thing, because desiring creates a distance between you and what you want. Exhausting the desire is equall to say that you have accepted the thing or situation in yourself already, in your inner sphere or how ever you want to call it so, you’ll have it in your life in no time.

11

[quote=“PHORBABOR, post:1, topic:1676”]This will probably be a controversial opinion but I find it true. Unless you are strong enough to take something on your own all your efforts will worthless. This is only from my own personal observations but I would like to hear yours as well.

If I desire something that is within my reach then it will come effortlessly. If I desire something that is out of my grasp it will remain there until I am strong enough to grab it.

The more powerful I grow the more powerful my magic grows. It is like a bank that will not give you a loan because you need it but because you can afford to pay it back. At a high price of course![/quote]

You’ve met the Dark Pantheon I see.
Nope, and they WILL NOT help you if you’re capable of doing "it"
yourself either, HOWEVER, if you are in their good graces, they’re on spot and in shot when you NEED help.Saw Set steer a tornado away from me TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS, and Asmodeus [I think?] gave me a bit of help with a gun waving Mexican.Bastet has gotten me money when I really needed it before too.when you know “What to want” which should be obvious, they can and will take care of the “Need”.
What you should “WANT” obviously, is to be a god.Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

12

I love this!

To me magic is like robbing the bank with hodgepodge team of Angels, Demons, and Spirits. Kinda like Oceans 11, tons of prep work and study, then one major heist (ritual), followed by the getaway (working here on this plane to get what it is you were after and then dealing with how it effects your life)

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