Lucid dream to astral realm

I wanted to ask you about lucid dreaming and astral projection. My understanding is that they’re 2 different things. At first that seems obvious.Especially as one of the most common methods for people to have lucid dreams is to take steps during the day , such as performing reality checks & keeping a dream journal so that you can become lucid during a dream either out of habit performing a reality check or recognizing patterns in your dream from your dream journal.
My method for lucid dreaming is more like the WILD method but I no longer set my alarm to wake me up in the morning as I have lucid dreams regularly enough now just by setting the intention & letting myself drift into sleep while retaining awareness. So what happens isn’t that I become lucid during a dream. Instead I lie on my bed & visualize my room around me This gradually becomes more & more vivid until I can see it clearly. Then I realize I’m no longer visualizing the room around me but I’m instead seeing the room through my closed eyes. Sometimes sleep paralysis kicks in too , although not usually , I mostly only experience sleep paralysis when I wake up suddenly.While all this is happening I also have intense aural hallucinations. I can hear people yelling just outside my bedroom window , really load cars & trucks passing by , maybe machine noise, just a barrage of sounds. Then I perform a reality check to make sure I’m dreaming & i get up out of the bed.
My confusion is that a lot of the things that happen as I start to enter the lucid dream are the same as what people describe as happening before you astral project i.e. the sleep paralysis and the load noises. Also , I’m in my room and it looks pretty much like my actual room and a couple of times I’ve been able to do it during the day , with the curtains open. I’ve laid down on my bed, rolled onto my side & got really relaxed. Then with my eyes closed I start to visualize the room. Then suddenly I could see the room in full detail. I hadn’t gone into sleep paralysis but I could wiggle my fingers without moving my actual fingers. Then when I tried to move my arm , I moved my actual arm and woke up. Is this kind of experience a lucid dream or a form of astral projection ? I’m really unsure about it.
Is it that I’m passing through the stages leading up to an OBE but then I slip into a dream. It’s confusing because the dream happens in my room & the astral projection would also happen in my room… I had one definite projection. After waking up one morning I lay on my back & managed to spontaneously astral project 3 times. The first , I shot out for about a second , then 'BOOM ’ back in. The second , I shot out for 2 or 3 seconds before slamming back in but the third I got out & stayed out for about a minute. It felt different from when I’m lucid dreaming I’m in my room. For one thing I didn’t seem to have a body. I was just a floating consciousness that I could control the movement of by willing myself to go in a certain direction. I was experiencing myself in a completely new way & just moving around took thought and experimentation as it was all completely new. In the dream I have my body as usual and movement is even easier than in real life.
So am I experiencing the first steps of an OBE but then allowing myself to fall into a lucid dream. Also , is there any way of going from a lucid dream to the astral realm. It seems like in a dream you are in an imaginary body so can you then go from the sleeping world to the astral realm in the body you’ve already imagined.

I get that randomly, going to try to force it using your visualization thechnique.

When you see like that, does it by any chance look glowy like you’re seeing through night vision goggles?
When you snap back to awake, does your point of view shift by a few inches? Like the difference in perspective from looking out of one eye, then the other?

I’m not sold on the astral. You either have your attention invested in the waking world, in the dream world, or split to various degrees between both. Falling asleep is having a foot in both worlds, the end result being something similar to the tech notion of augmented reality.

Imagine a cup full of water labeled “awake”, and another cup labeled “Dream”. Falling asleep is pour attention from on cup to the other. The amount of dream stuff you can build is limited how much attention is in that cup. This transfer of awareness is usually gradual, which means you can only create random stuff with no background or context, since there aren’t enough resources available to fill in those blanks.

In my opinion, the acquisition of a dream body is the crossing of a threshold where your dream cup has more attention than your waking world cup. That’s why lucid dreams from WILDing methods tend to be unstable at first, the transfer isn’t complete. People don’t wake up as often from DILDs because their attention is already 100% invested into the dream.

Dreams always reflect what your attention is focused on. That’s the key to controlling them. This still applies as you are falling asleep to determine your initial dream location. It’s either based of of what you were thinking about, based on your hypnogogic stage, or it defaults to the last thing you were aware of, which is being in your room. If the transfer of awareness from awake to dream is sudden instead of gradual, the dream has no choice but to base it’s self on your current location.

I’m not sure what you’re expecting out of the astral experience. you might already be there.

Its Happen to me, i while Entering Lucid Dreaming at night by Visualising Strongly until i fall asleep but instead of entering Lucid Dreaming i taugh about the Wood behind my Hous and the Tree i climb in regulary and i get there in Astral Form , i was sitting on the tree and i suddenly fell back due to the constation of my Astral travel and i get back in my body very quickly it was not pleasant to experience.
But i was happy to have Astral Projected, and by this Accident i found a Method of Projection that Work for me.

Cool man , thanks for all the info. I really like this forum , I’ve got some great answers to questions I’ve had for yonks. Regarding dreams being more likely to collapse when entering them using the wild method because as you say your dream cup hasn’t had time to fill , I’ve had success using your advice i.e. creating centrifugal force by say swinging my arms around or whatever. I’m having lucid dreams fairly regularly ( 2 - 3 times/wk ) but I’d like to increase it as I’ve lots of things I want to try. I’m reading a lot of Michael W. Ford & he has some really interesting dream work, going to the crossroads to meet Lilith & be initiated by her into witchblood by drinking from her cup of blood ( man I love his imagery ) shape-shifting into a crow/bat/cat & going to the witches sabbat & other fascinating exercises. Then he also has rituals you perform after astral projecting where , for example , you visualize the gates of hell opening after chanting ’ Zazas , Zazas , Nasatanda , Zazas ’ & then either entering & meeting the demon you seek in their realm or calling them forth , through the gates , to you.
The other thing I’m really interested in is using lucid dreams to communicate with my daemon , Azal Ucel as Ford calls it or as in thelema ’ The Holy Gaurdian Angel ’ , also known as ’ The Shadow ’ or as psychologists term it ’ The Id '. This is very important in Fords approach , learning to listen to & be guided by your daemon ( instinct ) , unhindered by fear or morality. I’ve read ( not in Fords works ) that the daemon can be communicated with , to some extent , simply by entering a lucid dream & looking at yourself in the mirror. Your reflection will talk with you & is a way of communing with your subconscious. I’ve yet to try this as I only recently came across it but from my experience with lucid dreams I can definitely see it working. So there’s loads I want to do in lucid dreams.
As for astral projection , Ford has described rituals for use in that state to, there is the work of travelling through the different spheres on the tree of life & the tree of death & also , as Koetting describes , following spirits you’ve summoned back to where they came from & as he talks about in his soul travelling course ,the work of reaching higher states of consciousness i.e. entering the causal & mental planes etc. From my one experience of astral projecting I know that it feels different from lucid dreaming. During that experience everything felt more real than in my lucid dreams , where objects are out of place, different or missing as are actual rooms & locations. When I astral projected , however , everything in my room appeared exactly as it should. Also , in lucid dreams my vision is kind of off , things look sort of fluffy/distorted somehow but when I astral projected things appeared much sharper than usual, in fact they had a kind of glow a bit like what you described when you asked me " When you see like that, does it by any chance look glowy like you’re seeing through night vision goggles? "
Sorry for going on so much , I just find this stuff fascinating so I tend to ramble :). Thanks for your replies though as your information has helped me. I’ve been able to get my dreams lasting longer thanks to your advice and your info here has given me a new perspective on lucid dreams , great stuff man !! :slight_smile:

[quote=“Rory GallAgher, post:4, topic:7675”]Then he also has rituals[/quote]\

I wouldn’t worry too much about ritual in your dreams right now. It’s a great place to practice ritual, as the logic running the dream and the magic are the same. If your ritual isn’t producing reliable results in the dream, scrap it, find something that is reliable, and base your new ritual on that.

If you pull off some random power in a dream, then repeat it 100 times, that becomes ritual. The motions you go through to activate that power, both mental and physical, become tied to that power and become the ritual access point.

The non-human things I’ve encountered in my dreams have never been chatty. They seem to interact directly with your attention, and for me the telltale characteristic is how good they are at doing that.

[quote author=Rory GallAgher link=topic=8064.msg85030#msg85030 date=1462809197]
astral projecting I know that it feels different from lucid dreaming. During that experience everything felt more real than in my lucid dreams

The first time a child goes to disney world, the experience is going to seem more intense than regular day to day activity. That doesn’t mean disney world exists in the astral realm, it only means the kids thought that place was special.

To begin with perhaps, but go exploring and see how fast things diverge. Unless you have a good tie to the waking world, like with trauma induced bilocation, your dream will diverge from the initial location.

Finding yourself in your room has more to do with how fast you fall asleep.

I would strongly recommend contacting your shadow through the sigil/entity described in this thread.
It is far more effective then Fords work for me, perhaps because Fords work was more of an intellectual pursuit then focusing on his own spiritual development. (my opinion) Also there is a sense of familiarity with that sigil, almost as if those who use it not only amplify the territory of your shadow in reality - though also I feel like the shadows of those who use it interact in a way.

Anyways- yes to preforming rituals in lucid dreaming!!! Dreaming sorcery is natural. While most functions are hard to preform in dreams those who often practice rituals get into the habit and muscle memory of it where in a dream its 2ed nature!! I had the most lucid dream last night where my sense of mind manipulation of people with my mind only was fully realized. There is a sense that magick faculties are awakened in dreams. Still trying to figure out how to fly in real life though haha. The next step for me is to detail the most optimal ritual for everyday use that would work in dreams or while awake, I have a better sense of what that would be now.

Five Finger Grass Root (Cinque foil), bay leaves and lavender may have aided my lucid dreaming. I practically smoked some after filling up my SUV with that mix the day before hand after going hiking with friends. Communicating with the shadow and playing music was what I did right before sleep, as opposed to grounding after ritual I entered a period of lucid dreaming. Perhaps affirming that you are in another reality all together instead of looking at it like a dream when you are asleep would help too. Also had 2 glasses of IPA’s before bed.

attached a pic for ya! [=

Thanks for the info. I felt there had to be something interesting I could do in that state. I wish this forum showed you when someone replied to your thread. I know u get email alerts but be handy if indicated it on page when you sign in. Anyway I’ll experiment

You can! New comments right at the top of the page, next to your avatar, shows you all new replies on threads where you posted, and New topics shows all unread posts.

It took me ages to find that out! :slight_smile:

Oh right cool, thanks :slight_smile: