Koetting's method of sigil magick or candle spells

General Discussion
1

When EA says “bring to mind the image of you holding the money” or something along those lines, how EXACTLY is this image supposed to be?

I’ve studied NLP for a long time and, in order to program your mind effectively, you have to see YOURSELF in the visualization, NOT through your own eyes. I’m guessing this applies here as well, right?

It’s something like:

Man with problem: “I’ve got a problem, I visualized everything I want as clearly as I can, I forgot about it and let it sink into my subconscious mind, but nothing happened.”

NLP expert: “Yes, yes, you visualized everything you want to have, but are you in the image as well?”

So what’s the deal? Did any of you had success by seeing the image through your own eyes, or did you see yourself in the image, as if you were outside of your body, watching yourself?

2

Your own quote of EA answered the question.
“bring to mind an image of YOU holding the money”.
All the works I’ve seen by Koetting have included something to this effect.

How can you be looking through your own eyes looking at yourself (without a mirror of course, which would have little practical use in visualization for most magical operations)?

3

Euoi, I don’t think you understood what I said. You can either watch a movie of you holding or spending the money, like you were filmed by someone else, or you can see that movie 1st person.

And you can look at yourself through your own eyes, but you’d only see half of yourself. :stuck_out_tongue:

And “bringing an image of you holding the money” could very well mean seeing through your own eyes as you hold the money. It could have been “bring to mind an image of someone else holding the money”.

Again, 1rst or 3rd person?

4

You’re over complicating something very simple. You’re imagining yourself. Obviously, third person.

5

Ok then. That’s what I thought as well, since I studied NLP a lot. Seeing yourself in the image actually makes sense. The image would then represent you possessing what you desire. If you weren’t in the image, it would just be the desire.

6

[quote=“Elison, post:1, topic:1772”]When EA says “bring to mind the image of you holding the money” or something along those lines, how EXACTLY is this image supposed to be?

I’ve studied NLP for a long time and, in order to program your mind effectively, you have to see YOURSELF in the visualization, NOT through your own eyes. I’m guessing this applies here as well, right?

It’s something like:

Man with problem: “I’ve got a problem, I visualized everything I want as clearly as I can, I forgot about it and let it sink into my subconscious mind, but nothing happened.”

NLP expert: “Yes, yes, you visualized everything you want to have, but are you in the image as well?”

So what’s the deal? Did any of you had success by seeing the image through your own eyes, or did you see yourself in the image, as if you were outside of your body, watching yourself?[/quote]

NLP is a genius model and methodology for creating change. (Richard Bandler’s partner - John LaValle - corresponds with me from time to time)

But keep in mind that NLP and magick are two different models.

NLP is the model of how the human mind works.

Magick is the model of how astral energy affects the physical plane.

To perform effective magick, you do not necessarily need to adhere to the best practices of NLP.

That being said - to answer your question - I strongly recommend you apply your best practices of NLP to magick for improved results.

So yes, create both associated and dissociated visualizations, crank up the submodalities, and consciously anchor the state to your sigil.

1 Like
7

[quote=“Timothy, post:6, topic:1772”]But keep in mind that NLP and magick are two different models.

NLP is the model of how the human mind works.

Magick is the model of how astral energy affects the physical plane.[/quote]

Your advice is indeed good, but this is why I was asking the question. Like you say right here, magick is the model of how astral energy affects the physical plane. But isn’t astral energy directed by the mind? This is why I consider NLP as being very important to magick, because it helps control the mind in every aspect possible.

Nonetheless, thanks for your advice!

8

I agree with everyone above. When I do visualization of this nature, my mind takes an almost ‘out of body’ perspective, where I see myself acquiring or completing the task at hand. I think generally, this is easier to do than trying to imagine it first person.

9

I’m quite the opposite in that I naturally tend to visualise myself in the first-person because that’s how you experience reality everyday – unless you’re looking at your reflection in a mirror or you’ve projected outside but near to your body. I’m going to try experimenting with third-person visualisations.

10

It actually makes much more sense when visualizing 3rd person. You see YOURSELF accomplishing what you want. Otherwise you only see the desire…

11

Yes, but are you not seeing the money in YOUR hands even when visualising in first-person? One could argue that first-person visualisations are also much more personal and easier to associate with and transfer your emotions to as if you’re having the experience right then and there in the ritual.

Anyway I’m not saying one is wrong and one is right. As Timothy said it’s wise to make use of both.

12

Maybe this will help clear things up.

I created an NLP pattern which works extremely well with magick. It uses both 1st and 3rd person. Now here it is, in ritual:

Write on a piece of paper whatever you want to accomplish. While you write it, visualize it, fill every word with emotion and excitement, make it alive. When you’re finished writing, hold the paper in your right hand and do this:

You visualize 1st person that you have accomplished what you want, you feed it with energy, with emotions, etc. Then you step out of your body, visualizing it 3rd person. This means detachment, exhausting the emotions, taking the energy out of yourself. While you do that, at the same time, take the energy from the 1st person visualization and drain it out of your right hand, into the paper. See the image (becoming 3rd person) entering the paper.

Then do with the paper whatever you want. You can even draw a sigil on top of the writing and open it.

1 Like
13

Yes, and no.

Your mind does direct astral energy - and even more so when you do it consciously.

But energy flows between the planes of existence naturally, like water, sculpting the manifestations of reality.

The fact that using associated and dissociated visualization reprograms the unconscious mind, does not necessarily mean that astral energy requires that to effect change.

Furthermore, it’s not even necessary to use both forms of visualization to make change in your unconscious - it’s just extra-powerful.

P.S. Dissociative visualization is not applicable to all scenarios of change-making. For example, a “fall in love” pattern calls for associative visualization. Visualizing yourself in the picture with your loved will make you fall out of love. Richard Bandler covers this in detail in an old seminar.

14

Great info as always, Timothy.