Honestly, can’t remember a time when i knelt and felt good about it. Both knees or just one- always felt- wrong. Lately, in my Sanctum while doing ritual- taking a knee has felt all the more wrong. Perhaps Belial is telling me that it is bullshit? When going through the S.Connolly Demonolatry ritual stuff, she state to go down on the left knee. Well, last time I didn’t kneel, and I took down the DZ, just has the Belial sigil, and was skyclad- and though I didn’t have all kinds of huge results- I felt quite Right and Comfortable.
I do however sit on a chair- with arms,[EA said somewhere to use a chiar with no arms- no idea why] it is easier on my wiped out back.
I appreciate what EA said recently about having the spirits guide what you do in your rituals and do not be bound down by a book or instructions. Such things are good for kick starters, but once you get into your own com channels- there does come a time to chuck the books.
Anyone have some wisdom on kneeling? When, Why, etc?
I do a spread arms on kness,and 1kneeif i need ,like tamat? The Egyptian goodness, and bow,and do mudras whit hands,
You associate kneeling with blind worship. Hence negative feelings.
I kneel out of respect for these entities. They are, after all, your elders, teachers, and (dare I say it?), superiors.
It’s really not required however.
I get on my knees for my priesteses. I only have two regular ones (dear hearts I love) but have identified them each by unconciously kneeling to them at one point in time.
Also…it’s not commonly remembered…that when kissing a goddess on the hand.
.Tou do not move her open hand. You look for the chance where you should be able to bow, hold her hand and move down to it to kiss.
I’m with Frater Dark Matter on this. A very serious accident 8 years ago left me with a bad hip. Things like sitting cross legged on the floor, kneeling, etc., are damn near impossible for me now, so a chair really is the only option. I think spirits know and understand our physical limitations (if we have them) and don’t mind if we use chairs, don’t kneel, etc. There are many ways of showing them due respect. JMO.
I never kneel or bow my head before a spirit. I do a gesture that is like a slight curtsy (a simple bend at the knees and immediately straightening up) as a sign of respect. Then I usually sit down and speak to the spirit.
The only time I’m kneeling when I do magic is if I’m using the floor or ground as a working surface, otherwise I’m in a chair.
I agree with Euoi. It’s not a requirement, but it does show a lot of respect and honor to those spirits that are willing to teach and guide you. I don’t view demons and company as my servants, and I don’t use them for personal gain because I don’t need to. I work with them as if they are my professors. I kneel to show respect and gratitude for the lessons they have given me.
I certainly understand and appreciate the aspect of kneeling as showing humility, gratitude etc to a spirit and do not see it as any kind of subserviance or being lesser than the spirit.
My view is 9 times out of 10 any spirit I am doing any kind of serious work with I will have prepared a place for this spirit in my home, given it offerings and gifts and made it feel as welcome as possible. I sit across from the spirit as I would any other friend, partner I do not see how me being on the floor is going to show honor or respect to the spirit anymore than I already do.
I usually only kneel when calling the spirit, and sit for the rest of the session.
Up till last week, I would at least give a one kneee thing. but, at least with Belial- I keep getting an “don’t do that- I know your heart”- and as uncomfortably crazy as it sounds a huge wave of " We’re Equals- and I am here for you-- with a real, “and I am happy that you would call” vibe. I -even with humans i may be at odds with, am deferential, Deep Namaste’ type; so with Belial- who i am “Unable” to not love as a “Beloved brother”, to have him in my opinion telling me- I will deal with you but not on your knees", it is really something i have to adjust to- so I am cautious. no doubt a hangover symptom from the slavegods of yore.
especially today, which was wierd, this Pact situation with Belial, I am feeling so damn spoiled in so many ways, every good thing in my life has had a “Bouncing betty” in it- and I know this won’t- which is even more unfamiliar territory.
Indoors, I stand at my lab desk or use a large retired Lodge chair at times because of my physical condition. Outdoors, I have the luxury of living near deserts, so caves are available, allowing me to lay on my back and use of chalk on the curvature of cave walls.
Never really considered offending an entity by the physical restrictions I face, assuming we are all “open books” to that which is summoned - and are aware of my deteriorating physical condition that is perhaps my own version of your, “Bouncing Betty”. They certainly know why kneeling is not an option.
No, respect is the key component, not positions. I refuse to kneel due to my own problems, so most of the time I offer a libation by pouring beer on the ground in a respectful manner, but to an outisde observer looks like I am just emptying a bottle hastily.
A spirit, Baal Berith, told me he likes how solemn I look during these offerings despite the fact that I don’t look like it at all. It is what the heart carries what it counts.
So yes, spirits know and see well what’s happening. No need for kneeling when you can’t, or of you feel it is not appropriate. Would you kneel before one of your Uni teachers or someone important in your workplace to show you respect them? I guess not. I know you could say “But those cannot be compared to spirits!”, but as I insist, respect is in the heart.
Do that which makes you comfortable.
the path of the magician… ive found is the path of the upright. you left handers may hate me for saying this but i belive in the one true god. magick for me means that if god is truly the “father” then why should i have to beg him for anything? i say fuck that kneeling shit! i say i will claim my true inheritence and claim my place at the table of our father god and do MY works as he does his. i would NEVER kneel before ANY spirit, even the ones i love and trust. i wish only to stand among my spiritual brothers and sisters as the equals that we are.
so yea, kneeling is for suckers.