Just for Conversation-Ex... possible issues, opening up to

As Example: one goes to a “website” …unknown site? or a known site… but “phishing” (if one is familiar with that term- 'masquerade … “takes the pmt meant for another”… then tags on their-rep)… if you were “redirected” by your browser having some code (or pop-under… some affect in the background- unnoticed… operating in your Environment, or in your Mind - both?.. dis-cover that affect?)…
or Contrarily- you create a webpage… (call out in the ‘darkness’ during a Ritual)… who is going to see it? Say post a request “Help me… looking for assistance in my life, I will give pmt in return.” - and post that on ‘Craigslist’ (if the reader is familiar with that, or any other ‘want-ad’ type forum / blog-comment. etc)… who might see? -who might respond?

you may have a response by one that will change your life (hopefully for the better) [ …also some ‘shady’ types? ]
- the old economics are they Willing & Able to exchange (do they not only have the capabilities and abilities, and time avail, but are they interested… for what in return?..
if they don’t have the abilities to help your situation, hardly matters how interested/generous they might be…)

Is someone that has the skills you seek, likely to be reading that posting? might they find a “webpage” you create? (a call out- req)… just food for thought <before you become ‘energetic’ food for Spirit or energy)… Offering- “I’m looking for one to do a task at home, I’ll pay in advance…” - might you get many to respond (and poss. take the money and ‘run’)…?

Note: not a concern so not do… just saying then that the “Working System” that EA touches upon- one should have checks-built in… even the WoD greeting the WanderingSpirits… then goes on to a structured contact later (as well as his later works, show his prior intro-contacts… compare OAA… developing infra-str)

(nor saying that going in an “old” system won’t have such issue: “old” as 100yrs old Golden-Dawn deriviatives… or reapplication of say Crowley’s 777 attribs, from the Lodge-GD associations developed via their “grades”… now w/o the Grades, people look up the list- assemble a pile that might summon a “Saturnian”… light a candle- call out- Help… then pick your finger, offering blood… and perhaps other EnergyRaising… acts… say sexual-fluids even… …
“old” in quotes- as even the Grimmoires… post Renaissance, is less old, in relation to some Currents… but it is all where one is…


[best ex, not to put on the spot, but Lady Eva’s post about Demon-Child… and brief comments about prior Yoga Meditation immersion, could be interpreted as the “meditation” some time paying attn to breath and relaxing… same? rather the prelim to Demon-Child seem to indicate to me rather “spiritual athleticism” <just as one that works up to running Marathons- or even Triathelons- becomes a different kind of person, even if they stop training such…>
then to go on, one could read that and think- just reach out to “a Demonic King” (or even an Angel) and ask them to put an energy inside and have it grow <? could be many things, espec if not prior Contacted.. have advisor-Entities watching-your-back?>
** <that could be the CliffNotes interp of the Demon-Child post… likely end up different results? or actually not even the same thing at all.>

Not to give that example too much- but hopefully one reading this might see how we have a tendency (in this “sub-culture” let alone ‘modern-culture’) to read part of a system/method, and think- I recognize some of those terms and thus it means XYZ… and link that to many other ideas… and may end up a bit off-course (and the original comment may not be ‘perfect’ in the first place, even if it wasn’t ‘misinterpd’)…

so just the key- are there checks and balances (in how you are Working)? if one is comparing/following the suggestions/stories of another, and they/you/I coming from the same place? (ie do they have Contacts already, Allies watching supporting, again the Lady Eva story… mentioning such “backup Entity Allies”… thus any reading the post and seeking to followi-along who didn’t also have already such backup… might keep that in mind.

And whether Checks&Balances are needed, reeval where one is at <or not>    [and not jump to assumption of what that means or implies, or would cover that...]

(and if you still seek to continue what you are doing- when one is pathworking to go to a Goal-Ending… as travel along, may decide this isn’t the best path to get there- but also might decide, I no longer wish that same Goal-Ending… so clearly need change the path on)…
most of all, the path. - to quote another poster from this forum “Keep Evolving”

Huictiigara from the GV, who I’ve just posted about here, has been a most helpful and professional spirit, and this has made me even more certain that what sorcerors of old considered to be “demons” who were only out to drag people into hell and wreak havoc unless you bullied them down with godnames and similar crap, are actually often just spirits who exist independently in their own reality (not as egregores, pimping services for recognition to stay alive) and are willing to perform certain acts.

The same thing happens in core shamanism, you do a trance journey to some drumming and locate a spirit who’s willing to help - your intention is the key, and will direct you to the right spirit who’s most able and willing to assist.

These spirits are almost never names in the grimoires and legends, in fact sometimes they won’t give an actual name, just a description (maybe a few who did that before are still being called into triangles by some jerk who wants to get laid?) and I mean, they WORK, they do the task and your client or friend or whatever can actually feel the difference, and it lasts.

I’ve had that happen too many times, sometimes to people who didn’t believe it would work, other times to people who didn’t even know the work had been done, to dimiss it as fantasy.

There are undoubtedly some beings whose entire existence is so inimical to humanity that they could be counted as “evil” (I guess like locusts are “evil” to crops) but they’re few and far between unless you go looking for them.

I’m fairly certain that since the fear-based Churches of the past painted any independent spirit as a creature of the devil, over time humans only went to them for help in baneful work, and so the expectation grew on both sides that this is what they do because they’re demonic, fallen, etc., and since they were led to understand that this is what humans want, they sometimes provided it - and just as often, backfired the request back onto on the sorceror for being a dick, which of course just fed into their reputation on earth as being tricky or malevolent.

My recent experience with the “demon” Huictiigara (work which the Archangel Raphael approved of) confirmed all my theories - I didn’t need to dress up in magick clothing or use dire threats, and he’s made a tangible different to my life in a good way.

You approach these spirits in fear and only using them for evil aims, they’ll probably either fuck you up because they’re annoyed at your pettiness, or comply because they just love their specialist area and don’t care too much (human death, to spirits, isn’t a big deal in the greater scheme of things) - but the idea they’re all sitting there plotting humanity’s downfall and all that Xian crap, I can say that my experiences over the past year have led me personally to completely reject that, and everything that stems from it, including traditional grimoiric methods.

I know other people’s experiences and beliefs vary and that’s cool, I’m just making that statement as a summary of my experience so far.

Further to this, in core shamanism (CS) which is derived from the common features of shamanic cultures globally (not just northern pre-colonial USA!) there’s an emphasis on initiation BY spirit.

Yes, you can be initiated by your culture’s lineage where that exists unbroken, but a lot of the more hardcore stuff - the initiatory death rites, dismemberment, replacement of parts or the whole of one’s body in the astral with crystals, energy matrices, etc. - can only be done either in the astral realms, or in an eyes-openb trance state in this reality, where the spiritual realm is perceived overlaid onto this one.

And ALL of that initiatory work, the death and the energy work especially, amounts to the same work of putting the aspirant in a position of kinship and authority over the spirits, because while modern CS leans a bit fluffy and spirit-led, the traditional methods recognised and exercised the right of the shaman to command spirits, as well as honour, propitiate, or ally with them.

You could legitimately have spirit mentors whose advice you usually follow (a model I use to this day, without it being an actual “religious” approach), a spirit husband or wife who you love and trust, and who you work with on shared aims, and other spirits outside that intimate circle who are bound to you through loyalty, shared goals under contract, or by stricter command because you’ve bested them or done them a favour in return - all working together on different levels, as part of your spiritual community.

The key aspect of CS and the forms it was derived from is that not all spirits are alike, and you choose the method best suited to each one - the same way you’d greet your lover differently walking into the kitchen after a long day of work than you’d greet a maintenance guy, or a burglar.

So this also gives me reason to reject the standardisation of traditional grimoiric methods, and continue to embrace the idea of treating each spirit on its respective merits, with an underlying respect and positive regard, whilst keeping a wary eye out for the many who aren’t going to be anybody human’s friend or ally.

Thank, Lady Eva! Directly after reading this, I discovered that my sis is having extreme sleeping disruptions after her last emotional clearing. I’ll ask Raphael if requesting help from this entity is a nice idea. :slight_smile:

Don’t pay the ferryman 'til he takes you to the other side.

Its interesting running with apparent synchronicities and seeing what happens… rather like discovering clues. Or perhaps troubleshooting current life.