I grew up a Christian. So I just always assumed that Yahweh was real. But is he? And, with all due respect, please don’t try to convince me that our thoughts create objectively existent beings. It may be true, but there is no way that I can be convinced of it. So, for those of us who believe that entities exist apart from any human thoughts, do you think Yahweh exists? Or is he just a literary character?
I believe that Yahweh exists, but he is a jealous god. Don’t bother working with him unless you in for full devotion.
Also if you are not “chosen people of israel” i dunno why would you work with him… christianity is judaism for gentiles or “goys”
I believe that Yahweh exists, but he is a jealous god. Don’t bother working with him unless you in for full devotion.
But really, all gods are jealous, aren’t they? if you go to the sites of spiritual Satanism, you’ll see the same thing, Satan’s priests tell followers to promise to have no other god but Satan. Also that Satan gets angry and punishes those who, once having made a pact with him, or promised to be devoted only to him, then turn away and follow other gods.
So it is a matter of either wanting to follow Yahweh or not. If you want to follow him, you must be prepared to go along with his stipulation that he must be the only god for you, from then on.
And yes, Yahweh is indeed true, just like Satan and the others of the Infernal Empire. They all once lay sway on Earth, fighting for control of Humanity and their devotion. The war still goes on, for that matter.
These are alien beings, capable of physical to and from Earth. capable of inter-dimensional travel. Capable of shape-shifting. They are like us, except that though they know all this, we are in a state of amnesia.
Some do not want us to ascend and become like them. And then there are the rebel ones, like those we all work with here, who wish to open our eyes, and help us to realize our Divinity and become consciously, like them…
Yahweh is real, when you accept that, you’ll be ready to truly make a conscious decision to take your own destiny in your own hands. because if you turn away from him, you won’t go to any hell, as we have been brainwashed to believe.
I think that’s due to the fundamental difference betwen religion and magick: also, due to the similarities between Satanism and oither monotheisms when it’s practised as a quasi- (or full-on-) religion, as opposed to how a magician might work with gods, demons, and Satan.
I work a lot with gods, beings who had (and still have) cults and full-on temples and worshippers, and they don’t seem that grabby, and spirits like Belial are positively open to handing your request along to another spirit they think can help more, and hooking you up with them.
If you offer worship, that seems to bring out a more possessive side sometimes (I can only presume it’s REALLY bloody nice for them to receive), but love, affection, trust, not so much - I truly and deeply LOVE Hathor for example, I adore her and all she stands for, but she’s never insisted I only devote time and prayer etc to her, excluding all others.
Just my 2¢.
Never forget this, when you strive to be a magician:
If you believe he exists, first of all there is no shame in that. You are free to believe in any entity you wish. This being a dominantly LHP oriented forum, most of us would say either that he is a fictional character or is real but only because so much energy was put into his existence that he was created by us, like you said a thoughtform or that he does exist free from human thought but that he is a jealous god that craves devotion and attention so we simply choose not to work with him. Deep down inside I thought Yahweh/Jehovah/Christ had to be real because so many people worship him and I figured if people have that much belief in something and followers claim to have felt his presence, he must exist to some extent but if he did I did not want to follow a jealous angry god that seemingly hates women, being a female and all. So I believe he exists but he is not the type of god I would want to work with. Is he a thoughtform?
I think he is, we all know that if enough people put their thoughts into a particular idea it can become a reality. If each member here started trying to evoke the ficticious flying spaghetti monster for the next several weeks eventually he would become a real thoughtform and soon enough would take on a mind of his own. Only very few entities will say that they have been here since before humans and will attest to not being created by us. Now Yahweh was well known back in the days when these entities who claim to not be thoughtforms were also already in existence.
I believe the religion originally was created to control people but later on so many people were convinced it was real (many converted because of threats of violence if they didn’t believe in it) that maybe their very thoughts made it real and the more people have prayed to him, the more real he became.
The best solution, if you truly don’t trust your inner voice about this since you probably realize you were lied to since birth about demons and spirits so maybe you were lied to about Yahweh too, is to do some scrying. Talk to an entity you trust. I will tell you what I have been told by entities but you need to speak to them yourself at some point because you may have your own separate questions to ask. I have been told that he was not pre-existant of human kind, that he was essentially created by folks that wanted peace during a time of existence when people killed ruthlessly for survival and stold from others to get what they wanted, times when we did not have real jobs to earn money and organized supermarkets or trading efforts.
And also because these men wanted control and power, sorcerers that wanted to keep the power for themselves by making magick look evil thru religion and make it look fake thru other modern day sources so most people would be too afraid to practice or think it was pointless, allowing them to hold more power for themselves and gain better relationships with the entities they work with, basically trying to keep magick and entities all for themselves. by That these people essentially wanted peace and organization and the best way to do this was to create a thoughtform that would enforce this peace and brotherly love amongst men lest ye be burned in hell for eternity.
That would scare anyone of ancient times into believing because people back then were not very intelligent, not as compared to us today. Now did some of the first governments create him for control? Many people think so, but I won’t go there right now. But people were so ignorant and gullible back then, anyone who knew how to do something simple like start a fire with rocks was magical and needed to be feared so it would’ve been easy to convince enough people to follow him, enough to bring him into existence if he is indeed a thoughtform. Only a select group of pagan gods, demons, and angels admit to being here before us. Many demons when evoked will admit to being real but they say it is because of the human imagination that they were made possible, so basically thoughtforms.
But if you ask any demon or angel who was here back when christianity was first formed, they will claim that Yahweh is a thoughtform and that he simply took on enough power thru constant attention that he became real and he takes on the traits that we have assigned him. That the bible was written by men who knew sorcery and knew how to scry so when they wrote it they spoke of real entities but falsified the truth, making Lucifer to look like an angel of god that defied his word. I guess so that later down the road if anyone else attempted to scry for these real entities they would have false beliefs of them? Lucifer will tell you flat out that he never had any association with any of the beings of the bible except for the other entities also known as angels and that Yahweh was created thru collective human thought formation to the point he adapted his own mindset.
In fact, most of the entities we evoke today will not work with Yahweh because he is so ruthless and demanding on not just humans but aoparently the other entities too as because of our expectations of him, Yahweh feels that he must be in control of every situation. Lucifer and Satan are two separate entities, they are not one in the same. Lucifer does not even identify as an angel. Angels are a different type of being as opposed to demons because they have different roles and functions to oversee but Lucifer falls more along the lines of a demon because of his nature and willingness to help humans with mundane wishes.
Jboy, may I ask, have you done any real magick work yet? Obviously you’re not a troll because your questions and concerns are genuine but you seem to be more interested in obtaining informational content as opposed to actually doing magick and experimenting with it yourself to find out these things on your own. The ansers to anything you seek can easily be given to you by an entity of choice if you take the time to learn evocation methods and become friends with one or more of them.
Are you just trying to research the occult from every angle possible before you go delving into it, or are you just interested in the informational aspect of the occult with no desire to ever practice it yourself? Asking for opinions on who exists and who doesn’t will only land you with 50 different opinions in the end so the best thing is to focus on what you feel inside, what you believe, and what entities will tell you then form your final and true answer from a combination of those.
RavensAscent- Thanks for recognizing that I am not a troll :). Yes, I am very information/fact driven. I am also pretty skeptical by nature. Sometimes this makes me overthink things before trying them.
However, anybody can claim to “know” that a certain thing is true, but unless their claims can be demonstrated in some real way to other people, then their “knowledge” is really just “belief”. For example, if I wanted to join the Flat Earth Society (yes it still exists), I would want to take a look at their reasons and data to see if it held up under scientific scrutiny. If it didn’t, I wouldn’t spend my energy or time on it. Another example: Some people believe that they have the ability to defy physics (how many people on PCP have jumped to their death out of window thinking that they could fly). Their “knowledge” of their invincibility doesn’t change the fact that their hand was chewed off when they put it into a meat grinder. So from my perspective, what someone believes does not affect reality in the least bit.
So to answer your question regarding whether or not I have attempted magik: Yes, I have attempted the following: evocations. candle magik. sigil magik. offerings to native american spirits. prayers to ancestors. None of them have produced anything substantial (or, really, anything at all as far as I can tell). So I remain very skeptical. Is the lack of results due to the fact that I am doing something wrong in the magik? I hope that is the correct answer, because Magik is my last hope that my life will improve (other than just through mundane means or shit luck).
So I will continue to try actual magik now and then. If it eventually works, then I will jump fully on board the train. But until then, I must take a hopeful, “let’s see what happens” approach.
That is understandable but let me propose something: the basis of science is that like causes must produce like results - things must be replicable in identical conditions.
If my formula cures one mouse of cancer, I’ve proved nothing - if it cures all the afflicted mice who receive it, and you can do it as well in your lab with your mice, making the formula yourself but to my identical recipe, then we’re onto something.
Most magicians on here will tell you that either belief, or at least, sincere suspension of disbelief, are essential ingredients in magick.
If all the people getting results are doing things one way, using a specific element (regardless of our different paradigms, methods, goals, or personal religions etc) and you refuse to do that thing, then you’re not actually being scientific, because you’re not attempting to replicate what we do as part of the successful formula.
While belief may seem a weird element to include, remember that we know from quantum physics that observing things can affect the properties and behaviour of sub-atomic particles and forces, and we also know belief (in the form of placebo effect) can assist the body in healing itself - placebo outperforms no treatment at all in many cases, and in some is as effective as surgery and medication.
People who believe they’ve been drinking alcohol (when they haven’t) will act and genuinely feel intoxicated, so there’s even a measurable and proven effect of belief on cognitive functioning.
I know 100% belief may come hard, but willed suspension of disbelief should be achievable - think it over, anyway.
I understand your need to be scientifically thorough. I am the same way in many instances but you are forgetting that your thoughts can also change reality, not just your actions. Like Eva was mentioning earlier with the placebo affect in the medical field. Like does attract like so it’s only natural that if you are approaching magick from a scientific POV of proving whether or not it really exists, that you will have the oppositive reaction of what you desire.
The fact that you think you are trying to prove for yourself the validity of magick only further reinforces the part of your mind that believes it may not be real and every time you approach something thinking this probably won’t work but let’s give it a shot and see what happens anyway, you will get just that. A shot in the dark that probably won’t work. And also, spirits are more intelligent and more omniscient than many of us initially give them credit for. They are aware when someone is doing magick only to prove it’s validity and they are not likely to help someone who asks for a favor or offers them something while expecting results in return if they know that person is a skeptic.
To them, if asked directly, they would tell you it’s because they have better things to do with their time than to manifest magickal results or change the universe to react in someone’s favor just to prove a point to that person. They don’t care that (just an example not actual figures here) 50 million people think they are make believe because they know there are at least 3 million people out there that do know they exist so they won’t waste their energy appearing before skeptics.
And the same holds true for magick, they see no reason to waste their energy and efforts performing magickal tasks for people just to prove validity when they could be focusing those efforts on working with magicians who genuinely believe because to them it’s not always about offerings, it’s about results. This is why anyone could offer the best thing you could imagine possible to a spirit and say this is yours if you prove yourself to me and they will not show up, while someone who only has a scrap of bread to offer but has genuine belief can get the spirit to appear before them and pull them up out of poverty at their wishes. Because the spirits care more about results, completing the tasks they are assigned to and educating magicians because each new task accomplished is more power for them and each new magician educated is more success for them.
This response was not meant to lesson you or scold you, I am simply telling you the reason why so many skeptics fall into more skepticism until the point they become cold hard atheists that don’t believe in anything at all and believe that they too are not even real but just an illusion from a computer program or something, because the harder they tried to prove something real the further from the truth they became because you can’t prove something that pertains to magick or religion real without first believing in it enough to convince yourself it’s really worth seeing. It’s much easier to prove some things fake than to prove them real. Everyone skeptical that I’ve ever known has ended up chasing away the very thing they were seeking until all they could do was come up 1,000 new ways to prove how something was not real.
I’ve been around enough atheists in my life to know how this works. Once they think they are right because they couldn’t get Satan to appear before them, because they were only summoning him to prove he was fake and would not appear, they considered that enough evidence that they were right and after that each attempt by someone else to prove his existence they learned to fight back by continually coming up with other mundane reasons why you thought you saw Satan but it was really just your refrigerator doing this which caused that and made you think it was Satan.
I know it’s very hard to do which is why so many people are atheist these days or why they have such a hard time accepting magick as real because they don’t know that magick requires blind faith to make it work just as their Jesus also requires blind faith, but basically you have to truly believe it before you can see it not the other way around. Believing is seeing and once you realize that and make that first breakthrough, then seeing will become believing as you begin to see other things you never thought were possible but because you initially had enough faith to believe it, the other things you didn’t think were possible will then also reveal themselves to you in time.
To me being created by thoughts and existing apart from you as being objectively real are kind of the same thing. Anyway the thing with Yaweh is behind all the RHP showmanship, it’s an entity that sort of regards humanity as farm animals and he doesn’t like to share his livestock either. So he’s kind of a cosmic version of that redneck with a shotgun who is all “Get offa my property!”
That being said there is one safe way that I’m willing to reveal that you can work with him. There’s a sort of masonic version of Yaweh called Nubtiaida, which is more benign then the usual version of the entity. If you work with Nubtiaida, you’ll get all the power of Yaweh, but with less chance of it trying to do something bad.
I believe He is real, ie exists independently of our perception. And is the most powerful God.
Here is a comprehensive video ‘The Bible’s Buried Secrets’ on the origin of YHWH that was done by an extensive reaserch team and put together with the sponsorship of PBS, NOVA and many noted academic institutes like Harvard, the Hebrew university of Jerusalem and numerous museums like Egyptian museum in Cairo, the Albright archeological Research institute… well, you get the idea. This is not a propaganda piece.
It is narrated by well known actor/actress Liev Schreiber and Stockard Channing. It’s about 1 hr and 51 mins long but a worthwhile watch if you can set aside some quiet time to really watch and understand it.
There are revelations that tells you the exodus i[/i] never happen. Why the jews/Israelite/ Canaanites, decided to stop worshiping Baal and other deities and focus on this YHWH. Moses who started the first Yahweh cult got that idea while he was in Midian near a city called YHW which the people of this city named after their pagan God. It also tells you about the gynophobic authors of the five books of Moses. These patristic writings were from exiled jews who wanted something to hold onto as they differentiate their religion from everyone else, i.e. the circumcision which they admit wasn’t from YHWH but a symbol of distinction from their Canaanite roots.
It’s a very insighful and thought provoking piece, to say the lease, that gives you ARCHAELOGICAL prove on whether Moses and the isrealites were ever enslaved in Eygpt. Or whether YHWH was the true creator of this world. I doubt that since acrchaeology date his beginning around 1500 BC.
Here is the youtube video…
Why do you care? Why does it matter? Can you only practice magick if He’s real? Can you only practice magick if He’s not? Or is your interest in Him purely academic? The point I’m driving at is, it doesn’t fucking matter!
Chaos Mages believe all spirits are egregores, yet they use them, and their magick works. Some believe Mepsitahl is an egregore, and others believe she’s “real”, yet everyone who’s worked with her has gotten the results they desired.
You keep saying over and over, that you’re a skeptic. It seems to me that you use your skepticism as a shield to keep yourself from walking a magickal path. You seem to need others to validate and reassure you. Magick isn’t like that. Magick is about what you believe, and to hell with everyone else. I see things on this forum that I don’t agree with, or believe in, and I stay silent on the matter. Why? Because it doesn’t matter what I think, because it’s working for them. That’s how magick works.
You will only ever know what’s real or not through direct experience. You, it seems, will never have that direct experience because you get hung up on all the wrong details. You need the proof before you can act, when in fact, it works the opposite way: you get proof through action.
Stop asking everyone here to reassure you and validate your thoughts for you. Get out there and act! Suspend disbelief long enough to do a simple ritual, and watch the results manifest. Get out of the skeptics mind set and use what you believe to start making changes. Throw away all of the need to be “scientifically thorough”, because that won’t help you with magick. Doubt kills magick, and skepticism and the scientific process cast nothing but doubt on your mind.
I meant to address in my OP.
If you’re approaching magick as your last hope, then you’re approaching from a point of despair. Despair = emotional overload. Emotional detachment from results is a necessity in magick. It’s what we call “lust of result” that stops magick dead in it’s tracks. You need to be in a state of mind that’s confident, not emotional. Spare’s “neither/neither” explains this rather well.
After doing sigil magick, or candle magick, say to yourself, “Does not matter, need not be”. Then let it go. Detach. Be confident, without dwelling, that your desire has been heard, and it’s coming. If you start to invest emotion in the outcome, gently pull your thoughts away, and repeat “Does not matter, need not be”. I know it sounds ridiculously simple, but magick is ridiculously simple if we believe, or suspend disbelief, and detach.
I will do my best to implement all this advice. I wont give up yet. But i strongly suspect that at this stage in my life that I am too psychologically damaged to be successful in this endeavor.
YES, Yahweh does exist. He IS the EA- of the Sumer/Babylonian Enki-EA fame. Took me 30 years while a ‘christian-Priest theologian’ to work this rubics cube of convolution out.
Opposed to the “Don’t work with him” concept, though that took about 5 years to work out alone; mainly because sadly most of the folks who advise to do so, have not read the ‘evil bible and its originating texts from which it sprang’ to concur. The more one reads it, [beginning like my 3rd time through] it became clear that the ‘promised folk’, far from being gods little cuddlefluffies, were actually cleverly painted targets and being set as an example to the world sure enough- but not of favoritism, but of earning and inheriting the job of ‘world catbox’ and clawpost.
Try as they might, the priests who feverishly reworked the story and rewrite which has become 'the bible and all of its corrolary texts, they still failed to hide the truth that somewhere around the Abraham time- someone [likely abram] literally went to war with the EA and his priesthood in an effort to usurp power for some regional reason. This highly po’d EA (pronounced- Yah) and his priestly class. Hence his migration aka fleeing for his life, ending in his next attempt at stealing ground and usurping religio-political power in what we now call “The Holy land”.
The entire moses, [leaving aside was he real or a construct-which i favor] was a further attempt to repaint to canvas; though the outright name of EA still is plainly written in exodus. but it is obvious, this YHVH is not a different god from EA, but the other ‘wrathful’ side of the same diefic coin. As with most gods, if they like you, all is good, but Enki being the trickster he is, had no problem setting up the “promise folk” with rules and mentality which could in no way progress through history and be always getting the stiff heel of Enki-EA on the back of their neck (and by the way my promised people may now thank me for it and call it 'Being Blessed").
You want to know what YAHWEH is really about? Study Enki/ Enki-EA, you will find more answers than you could have imagined questions to. as well as realise that you want to keep your relationship with Him as Enki-EA and not run afoul of Him and Have it become Yahweh. EA is amasing !
You willl also find why, after thousands of years of drawing, carving, painting image making, the so called “Promise folk” were Commanded to NOT make any representation of “the Gods” or God, or 'anything in heaven above or earth beneath or in the waters of the seas". (since Enki-EA is a known ocean and subterranian water liver) because to do so woulld betray to all they he was not some newly Revealed God blah blah; but he and his Larger Associates /Clan; were basically HQ’d in what was called Evil Babylon, beginning shitloads of questions which the newly minted priestly powermongers would loathe to answer.
So, Enki-EA, is YHVH, aka YAH. Enki- is the human loving human advancing God of Magick (also made taboo by the priests-gee wonder why) and Yah, the well earned pissed off side of him who is not human non loving- just when you piss him off, you DO NOT want to become his ‘chosen people’.
Sunday School dismissed.
[quote="jboy, post:1, topic:6431"]I grew up a Christian. So I just always assumed that Yahweh was real. But is he? And, with all due respect, please don't try to convince me that our thoughts create objectively existent beings. It may be true, but there is no way that I can be convinced of it. So, for those of us who believe that entities exist apart from any human thoughts, do you think Yahweh exists? Or is he just a literary character?[/quote]
My advice would be, if you aren’t already meditating daily, do so. I won’t lie and say meditation cures all, but it can certainly cure much, and lead you to other fixes. Besides, meditation is a must for any system of magick.
I will do my best. I will keep optimistic. i wouldnt be suprised, though, if fate has determined that i am not able to benefit from magik. This may just be my lot in life. Sometimes people are destined to be metaphorically fucked in the ass.
You decide your own fate. Period.