Is There Anything Of Value In The Qu’ran?


#41

With all due respect that’s a gross oversimplification.
As was the logic used to extract a ruling that some perv raping jailbait is justified by them.

Also my wish to hit on the prophecy topic was to be from a point of view of divination and predictions of future events with accuracy etc not the science stuff.

Fine
Three issues
First: The charge of racism was done by and for white people in this, I haven’t heard any Asian making that accusation against police investigation. They’re all as shocked as the rest when that was brought up as a reason.

Second: It’s viewd as zina or haraba depending if the accused used force so even in sharia it would be criminal offence. It’s a different ruling than that of combatants in a war zone where the women would be taken captive. Conflating that with some type of sexjihad as opposed to general criminality is the fantasy of the right. Sometimes it’s just twisted fucks without an agenda .

Third: Terrorism promotion. On this I agree that the scripture mandates it in parts and against it in others.

Those that oppose it aren’t using the aborogated verses they are using a different principle altogether called covenant of security (basically as long as their lives wealth are protected by the infidel they must honer the lives wealth honour of the host population. any place that treats them equally )
and they have a strong footing to do so (I’ll post links if requested for any of the above for clarification).

They also have stronger arguments against targeting civilians(women children elderly infirm monks etc) intentionally which is what modern day terrorism is about considering the Manchester concert.

About cair promoting an agenda then yeah same way as African Americans have their groups and so do Jews. Every minority does. How is this one any different than the Jewish lobbies.

And it’s always Anjem choudrys group for the last decade or so.

I’m genuinely more upset that I have to be the moderating voice when as an apostate I’m in a worse position if they took over.

However those overly generalised statements, lack of nuance in the discussion ends up with policies built on those false presumptions that won’t actually help fight extremists or terrorist but make the situation less safe because instead of pinpoint targeting the problem with the resources available security (even magic attacks) will be distributed too thinly on far too big a target.
That’s why general hatred won’t make you safer.


#42

@charles9 and you read that as a defence of the JCI somehow? As I stated above, I DON’T LIKE whatever you want to call the JCI God, and I don’t like Angels either. The only thing I was trying to say is that the ideology and spiritual power behind a religion are not necessarily the same thing. Take the ONA for example. A LOT (though DEFINITELY NOT ALL) of the members are degenerates (again, I respect some of them). That does not detract from the fact that the Nekalah are powerful forces to be worked with. On the flip side of the coin, look at the modern New Age movement. Decent people but with a spiritual system that has less power a lot of the time than praying to the Flying Spaghetti monster. That’s the point I am trying to drive home. Nothing more.


#43

Uhh, tell me more of this sexyjihad…:smirk:

Edit: Dammit, you said sexjihad not sexyjihad…


#44

You either get it or you don’t. No explanation necessary.


#45

Just spat my coffee everywhere haha.

Oh Mia.


#46

The description of children being groomed as “jailbait” as though they bear responsibility for what happened is pretty damned vile.

Young girls addicted to drink and drugs by older men who groom them and then use violence and threats to keep them in their place are not bait, they’re children being victimised.

Not all - the families of the rapists are not shocked, some have defended it, and no Muslim MP has undertaken to lead a political committee against this and to root it out from within.

I have not read that mass shunning of the people involved took place, no boycotts of their businesses either, and it continues in most locations.

Where are the fatwas against it, where are the mass rallies led by local imams then?

Where are the sharia patrols outside the kebab shops and taxi companies, preventing the guys doing the grooming and the raping?

With the fact - not myth - the islam seeks world domination, the concept of a host nation is one that lasts precisely so long as those in power are not Muslims.

When Muslims have enough social pressure, and enough leadership, it ceases to be in their best interests to desist from violence, something that has been observed in many locations regarding the percentage of Muslims, and how problems rise in direct relation to that number rising.

The bit about taking over the world and wanting to kill anyone who disagrees, backed up with real political pressure to drop investigations (most western terrorists have been known to the authorities) and to endlessly push for more Muslim migration.

Actually since you raised it, the less Muslims are in a situation of needing to appease their “hosts” the more dangerous they become.

Just a small group then, nothing to see here?

Why has no-one opposed him? Why has he no competition?

Why have the tens of thousands of men and women who attended one of these preaching sessions not bothered to stand up and state they reject his teachings as false?

Oh wait - because he is preaching the actual Qu’ran itself.

Yup, it’s all MY fault! Silly me, not Mohammed, not Islam, not the preachers - me. Well that’s that one wrapped then. :thumbsup:

Do people who think like me make the majority of policy decisions regarding Islam in the west - instead we have appeasers, the “nothing to do with islam” crowd who seem to seriously expect we’re going to see a wave of agnostic terrorism, or Jain terrorism, break out any day now, and don’t forget, we can’t profile people based on their faith, because that would be wrong.

It certainly doesn’t make Muslims any safer in Muslim nations, which are almost all war-torn and riven by sectarian strife.

I won’t presume that was addressed to me, since silencing criticis of islam with words like “hate” is part of the problem we have right now.

Maybe begin it next time without the heavy-handed implication that anyone who has anything bad to say about Islam and the Qu’ran are biased, not intelligent, and so on? :thumbsup:

But like I said somewhere further up, I can split the thread, this stuff happens all the time, no biggie.


#47

I didn’t say that, what I was implying is simply turning the post what I created into the same argument about Islam isn’t what I said the post was for I said let’s ignore and forget about all the negative side and let’s focus on some of the strange things we can all discuss and analyse like the videos above.


#48

No, i read it as you not understanding the point i was trying to make. Nothing more.


#49

@charles9 At the time, the OP made it VERY CLEAR that the ethics or lack thereof of the Quran was NOT what was being discussed.


#50

Sigh, for the last time i was not asking for or caring about the ethics of the quran, i was asking C.Kendall for citations to what he was saying and at the time he was not providing it because apparently i’m just a bigot for daring to ask him for it. so much for a non bias perspective huh?

IS THAT CLEAR TO YOU?

Good, now i’m done with this, so do me a favor and don’t reply to me again. Thanks.


#51

Maybe next time “I’m sure people have strong opinions on the Qu’ran but I just want to look at X specific areas” would cut to the chase faster than going through Vikings, being a man of knowledge not bias, etc… just sayin’, as a bit of hopefully reasonably constructive criticism! :smiley:

I respect C.Kendall’s work on here, and I hope he knows that, so that’s not meant in a mean way.


#52

Respectfully sir, it seems like you are trying to compare degrees of atrocities on an equal footing. Comparing Norse pagans to Muslim extremists in that fashion is like saying someone who murders twice is a comparable killer to someone who murders 200 times. It is not.

First, who were the Viking extremists? Sure, when a trade deal went sour or there were disputes the vikings were known to kill people and some would sacrifice prisoners in various ceremonies. I don’t recall hearing the tale of the vikings who ran through a village, killing indiscriminately in the name and glory of Thor, and with no reason rooted in physicality. Also, the last viking raid/norse pagan sacrifice happened roughly 750-800 years ago. Muslims extremists killed just last week, unless I am mistaken. The problem is that they were also killing people specifically for the glory of their god-thing back when there were viking raids going on.

This is textbook Merkalite humanization of an abominable group of individuals (the extremists, not Muslims in general). The truly greatest damage the vikings ultimately did was prolonging ignorance through their destruction of books and the killing of literate people.

But to answer the original question, yes I do believe there is good material to be found in the Quran. As with any religious/pseudo historical text there is a need to separate the wheat from the chafe. If the reader is diligent then there is wisdom to be found and perspective to be gained. Like you said, there are scientific observations in the texts that beg the question “how did they know that then?” But most importantly, IMO, it gets the reader asking questions.

My opinion is that the knowledge of modern science found in the Quran is one of two things: 1. The Quran is a compiled work drawing from multiple sources. The knowledge could have originally come from a source that is undiscovered still or destroyed. It is even possible that the original source was destroyed or suppressed, so as to lend more credence to the religious context of the compilation. Or 2: Maybe some of the knowledge found in the Quran did actually come from a spiritual source, i.e. a djinn or non linear projection of modern knowledge. That is believable to me in theory just on the fact that if you take the Quran at face value, it is pretty obvious that Mohammad was huffing fumes in a cave and talking with a djinn.
_


#53

Don’t. Ever. Say. Such. Things. Again.

You wouldn’t want to get sacrificed to the Acausal Spaghetti monster, now would ya? :wink:

Allah Akbar


#54

In case anyone’s dense enough, I am being totally serious and not sarcastic at all. Nope. Me? Sarcastic? never…

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Just kidding.


#55

At the end of the day, the book it’s self is and should be the example to go from. So regardless of what the Individual person has to say about what parts of the religion they include or exclude in their daily life for example Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all have written in their books atrocious and horrendous conquest and conversion policies. Religions, like governments like to grow and gain more control and influence whenever and wherever they can. I hear a whole lot of liberals claiming how evil Christianity is while forgetting all that evil stuff comes right out of Judaism. But of course you won’t hear the university professor say anything negative about his own religion, Just Christianity. These same evils are amplified in Islam.
All three of these religions have an attitude of , either you are with us or you are not deserving of basic human rights.
The left gets all over Christianity for not approving of homosexuality yet Moslems Honor kill over it and liberals love Islam for some reason. Liberals go on and on about women’s rights yet have no clue about the torments women undergo in a Muslim society. Liberals go on and on about how Christianity is a faith of bigots but have no idea that they don’t view you as human unless you fallow all their rules. Liberals say they are against fascism yet Islam is a political governing system and not just a religion and that is the very definition of fascism and totalitarianism.
My question is what are all you liberals going to do when Shariah Law sets in due to there simply being a majority of Moslems who vote it upon you and you look back knowing you helped usher it in. You apologized for them because they didn’t apologize for themselves. Then they laughed at you calling you weak and pathetic and saying you deserved to be conquered for the glory of Allah?
When your gay friend is thrown off a tall building for being gay, when your feminist friends are being taken as sex slaves and abused until dead because they chose to continue goddess worship rather than convert to Islam and wear the covering. Because they like to parade naked and end up getting assaulted and since it’s Islam no punishments for the rapists only a big I told you you were dressed too provocative.
Or what about minority religions? What do you think " Tolerant" Islam will do with them?
What will you liberals do when you realize you made a big mistake in helping a religious-political dictatorship take over the democracy that allows you to have and enjoy the freedoms and perks of a separation of church and state?
I can’t stress enough how important it is to read the Torah, Bible, and Koran and truly understand what is going on. I know you liberals hate Christianity and for good reasons but why can you not see that Islam is exactly the same in all the things you hate Christianity for but amplified to the next level?


#56

Thank you for posting this (whoever posted the Neil
Degrade video) He’s my favorite person!


#57

#58