Is Lucifer a figure that simply personifies evolution?

I’m thinking of this in terms of the sheer strangeness for how someone could tweak something like Isaiah 14 so far out of context or pull so hard on Revelations 12 that they were able to essentially create something like a Christian midrash to explain the nature of evil in the world. Either a very narrowly specific kind of paranoid schizophrenic was given first order importance in their thinking or you had something like a whole society of scholars, whose whole sense of truth had to be coded in the bible, needed to extract something from it that explained something that they were seeing in the world, it just wasn’t in there, and their rule set (it has to be in the bible) forced them to such ends.

What it seemed like they were trying to describe is something like an inescapable gravity well that humanity seems to fall into which offers all kinds of false promises, uses people wantonly, and seems to have its fingers in just about all of creation - so much so that the world would need to be burned down to get rid of it. That they’d compare it to Venus is also very interesting. There is also an interesting occult nexus I think everyone has noticed between sex, violence, and what seems to be the light and energy of the universe sort of welling up in a fisher between the two and it’s a place where everything is mercantile and even mercinary - to the extreme - around its periphery because it’s holding a very limited resource that everything seems to need in order to survive.

I may be leading this narrative too tightly, and if I am please let me know because just for it being ‘sexy’ doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true - that just means that it’s more likely to stick and I’d rather burn it down if it’s ultimately wrong because if it’s both completely wrong and sticky - that’s a bit dangerous.

When I think of Darwinian evolution - it’s the game no one wants to play but has to play anyway. The rules are something like - don’t like the rules? Perfect! Tag - your dead! It’s the kind of game that arranges life in such a way where human relationships always have to be in some sense adversarial, certain systems of doing things which have atomized groups have in some ways made this even worse, but the core precept is that survival means more than truth and if you don’t give up truth you don’t survive. Resources seem to be given out in some combination to both the winners of genetic lottery and those who are willing to sell themselves out completely to do what’s essentially the will of the genome (think of the darker stuff Bret Weinstein brings up if pushed when assessing human game theory).

I think in some way the reason Lucifer has gotten popular as an entity to work with is that this specific rift, ie. Darwinian evolution which sets all of life in motion and simultaneously has contempt for all of its creations, is something under the domain of that archetype. Our attempts at dealing with Lucifer seem like they’re an attempt to humanize this process somehow, try to make better deals with it, but in some way perhaps buy our power back from what seems to be a biological plastic-shredder that we’re ordered to dutifully dive head-first into.


I wish it was that complex. Most people get into working with Lucifer because they believe that he is good for everything or because they think he hates what they hate, as simple as that


So he’s something like the left hand path equivalent of MSG? I like it. :rofl:


That’s western elitist propaganda.

Personally I’m a bit of a chaote in that I think it’s all in how you look at it. There’s no reason it couldn’t personify evolution to you and within your own psyche.

I think you have a lot of good points so keep investigating and see where the road takes you.

For me personally this spirit seems to embody The Rebel archetype within jungian psychology and my ability to stand up for my own autonomy while Abaddon is a force of evolution and growth

But again it’s all in how you choose to work with it

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What is MSG? I’m not familiar with English acronyms

So on one hand it seems to be rather clearly how people treat each other in nations under economic regimes like neoliberalism, that’s true, but I wonder sometimes if the notion that it’s specifically culture or economic regime is something akin to one of Sheldon Solomon’s terror management theory techniques of obscuring the truly inhuman edges of existence.

Modosodium glutamate, it’s the universal flavor enhancer.

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I think that’s part of why he’d be so important right now - he’s intelligent, symbolizes everything progressive, and to top it off every lesson he puts us through is a situation to learn and grow from rather than get smashed and thrown away by.

To my way of thinking it’s like we’re trying to yoke a giant Petersonian chaos monster with Lucifer as our sort of exalted/enlightened champion to saddle it and hopefully, if all goes according to plan will succeed with one of his feet on the water and the other on the land.

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Lucifer is not “of” the LHP, the more I spent time in this forum, the more I think that LHP is a marketing thing in order to generate a target audience that would buy LHP products, like with any other trend of young people dreaming about changing the world and being unique and different. Entities are above that


The more I look at LHP vs RHP the more I get that it’s something similar to individual vs. collective attainment and really the only reason to name it at all isn’t because it’s necessarily in opposition to RHP but because it’s a zone that was either not sufficiently explored or heavily tabooed in ways that weren’t warranted. I’d have to consider myself neither/nor, IMHO its all existence and we have to deal with it on its terms.

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Which “edges” of existence? The need to destroy entire civilizations, and then raise up academic institutions whose cult scientists will justify such acts with their brilliant theories (beAcauZ3 tHEy weRE --WEAK SAUCE!-- aNd w’ERe LiKE SOoPR DoMINAnt)?

This is an area I tread lightly because I don’t always believe that persuading someone of a viewpoint will lead them to having a better life. It’s one of those cases where there are many things that it generally doesn’t pay to be right on and to some degree you even feel the urge to shield others from if they don’t want to see it (well… at least up until they start marching in black and red - then they kind of need to know before they do too much damage).

I like how romatic that sounds, but I can’t see things like that anymore, you brought good memories to my mind, though, the only way I have to say thanks to you is giving you this rainbow :rainbow: it leads to Asgard

Sorry brother but I’m having a bit of difficulty comprehending exactly what you are trying to communicate here. Perhaps you could simply your question for me.


Fair. It might not map to the cultural realities and if not it might be interesting to hear you unpack one of these times although I’m guessing by PM or another thread since it sounds like it would be lengthy.

One thing to be fair, and to not be strictly 20th century neo-Darwinian, I do see where David Sloan Wilson is coming up with a lot of work that at least mitigates some of Richard Dawkins’ Selfish Gene and just how much our systems loved that message. Sloan Wilson’s finding though seem to suggest people working in more integrated and loyal teams with healthy in-group dynamics. I do hope that can curb the industrial death machine approach to this at least long enough to do more digging and find more game theoretical framework that we can use to stop dutifully ‘feeding Moloch’ everyone whose perceived as soft, non-competitive, or easily lied to. There’s a point after which if we give in to that too much what we have left to call culture isn’t fit to preserve any longer (ie. a good sized asteroid in that case would be the most merciful solution).

I can definitely do that for you, but honestly I don’t know what you mean by connecting outdated philosophy and opinions made by people with a far less than accurate view on science, reality, evolution, and the purpose of existence to Lucifer. Also keeping in mind that the vast majority of people with a might makes right viewpoint and a survival of the fittest mindset are the bottom of the evolutionary barrel and in such an actual situation would be the first to be destroyed by the more superior.

The world has been working to shift that paradigm for centuries, and in doing so, ironically, has solidified it’s rulership over our species. No
“theory” can oppose it or save humanity, no matter how pragmatic.

You don’t break your computer and gloss over the manual of a much better machine, while your broken one is still sitting in your posession; thinking “Maybe these better specs can fix my computer.” No, you throw it out.

I have a funny feeling that the really interesting conversation we could have is tucked away in the creases of that somewhere.

I might ask perhaps - what’s the superior and up-to-date theory you speak of which supersedes Darwinian evolution and natural selection?

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