Is evocation really necessary?


#1

From candle magic to smoke, pretty much tried it all. So after 2 years of consistant work has any of you got to the point where evocation has become unnessary?

I found a copy of evoking eternity, then found this place. All the info I ever needed is in these pages. Seriously, I dont even read books on magick any more. So when a person has evoked everything in EE (except house of kel and whatever D is) i had the full set up (robes, wands, cups, the whole 9) then I only use a cup some candles sometimes a dagger, most of the time I really dont use an alter. Just a yoga mat and a circle.

Minimizing the fool trappings to basic intent. So is evocation really that necessary?

I hear people say that evocation amps up the results better than any other practice but was Austin Osman Spare/koetting/various board members right? Just sigilize the desire, TGS, and forget about it?

Im kinda confused, to pull all of this together does one only need intent a colorful imagination and a dash of fuck it? It seems to be working for me, has anybody else got to this point? Am I missing something?

Honestly, my results can come a bit faster. I wouldnt mind. In the past everytime I put a time line on my work its never worked out. I have had some crazy results from the advice on this forum. Except the lottery, but im kinda glad I never got that right.

So may I ask for advice or experiences?


#2

Honestly if you are getting the results you want, keep doing what you’re doing. Do what works for you. Do whats fun. Keep a journal and verify your operations.

Make your life great.


#3

I am by no means bitching, I went from fucking up every ritual and with no results to measuring my success. From an observational point of view is results magic (black magic) mainly geared to a psychological mind set?

I love doing ritual work, the atmosphere, ambience of candle light, I love it. But can it all be done without all of that? Like, just a yoga mat a comfortable position and raw emotional intent of ones desires?

Yes, what im doing works. However, can anyone out there just go into TGS and do a ritual in your head and get what you wanted?


#4

btw nariusV I love the “make your life great” quote. That attitude alone is half the battle for getting shit done. Good stuff.


#5

I’m honestly in about the same boat you are it seems. Most of the trappings of ritual work are merely that, hey fear the mind up for doing magick, once you are comfortable and know the states you need why bother unless you just really enjoy the pageantry of ritual.

I’ve told several people here that I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t even do any kind of evocation for a physical outcome. I generally just do spells to get what I want and often without the aid of spirits, just focus and intent. I may focus on particular energies (planetary lately) but it gets the job done and often exceeds expectations.

I’ve heard so many say evocation is far more powerful than most systems but I’ve yet to see it personally, maybe I suck at it and my niche is spellcasting but whatever gets results. I’ve never achieved a physical manifestation of a spirit but I’ve had enough success in calling them I don’t doubt their existence or power. Generally any work I do for myself is spirit based but anything material is spellcasting often with little more than some candles, psalms and herbs and a lot of intention.


#6

I agree that you should do what works for you but for me I love the ritual atmosphere.It gives me a feeling of power and it’s downright beautiful to me.
I’m not that great at evocation yet,but the thought that I can summon a demon to carry my will into the world gives me a euphoric sense of Godliness.

That being said though.
My last two undeniable results came from sigilizing my intent,placing a candle on top of the sigil and after opening the sigil let the power imbue the candle with my intent.I then visualize my desired outcome and push energy in the candle untill the visualization fades from my mind.I then state my intent outloud,blow out the candle,inhale the smoke and state “It is done” as I blow the smoke into the air above me carrying it into the universe.

But none the less I want to become adept at evocation mainly to commune with the spirits and learn the secrets of their powers for myself.


#7

I don’t evoke. I don’t plan to ever, unless I’m in a dire situation.

Why?

Because why would one want spirits to carry their desires into the world, when the point of ascent is to become a living god? No, I create thoughtforms and servitors and DEMAND that what I want be brought to me. No demon to plead to. Very few times have I used outside spirits assistance, and even then that was because of my lack of knowledge in the subject. And I never communicate through evocation- I seem to have a natural telepathy.

But as my power grows in all fields, who needs to ask a spirit for help when you can make something just as powerful under your full command?

Becoming a god is not asking for assistance from stronger beasts, it’s clawing your way to the top and leaving your previous skins behind, like a snake. The skins peel back again and again until there is nothing but raw power there.

I had asked a demon when I was starting out to teach me the ways of magick.

Nothing.

Displeased with it, I started surfing the web and found E.A.

Six months later I can tell you the best way to turn a person barren of energy, attack whatever spirit I damn well please on the astral, I can make thoughtforms that will seed death and destruction, chaos and corruption. I have an armor so potent that, when activated, there is a barely visible outline of it on the physical.

I don’t intend to STOP ascending, and based on recent information I’ve acquired, I’m doing it much faster than I originally thought was even possible.

I’m not going to ask for help, I’m not going to pray for help. I’ll consult fellows to determine the best course of action, but the steps I take to demonhood are mine alone. Nidhogg guides me up the next staircase, but I never go back down. I never miss ignorance.

You want something done in this world? You do it yourself. Plain and simple.

So, OP, your answer is no, evocation is not really necessary. I am living proof.


#8

[quote=“Musta_Krackish, post:6, topic:2656”]I agree that you should do what works for you but for me I love the ritual atmosphere.It gives me a feeling of power and it’s downright beautiful to me.
I’m not that great at evocation yet,but the thought that I can summon a demon to carry my will into the world gives me a euphoric sense of Godliness.

That being said though.
My last two undeniable results came from sigilizing my intent,placing a candle on top of the sigil and after opening the sigil let the power imbue the candle with my intent.I then visualize my desired outcome and push energy in the candle untill the visualization fades from my mind.I then state my intent outloud,blow out the candle,inhale the smoke and state “It is done” as I blow the smoke into the air above me carrying it into the universe.

But none the less I want to become adept at evocation mainly to commune with the spirits and learn the secrets of their powers for myself.[/quote]

That’s one of my primary methods, let the flame be a gateway to allow what you desire to pass through.

Another set up a make shift altar to your goal, your not worshiping it just using it as a focal point for your desire. As you meditate on the images in front of you put yourself in them, feel like your there. If it was a car for example feel the excitement you feel driving off the lot in your new car and feel that pride of ownership as people glance over to look at who is driving the new car etc. make the experience as real as possible until it is. Don’t underestimate the magical imagination.


#9

first off thanks for your answers, I wanted to post this sometime ago but I didnt. It kinda felt like I would be falling into a parameter of a limitation of the application of magick. Everyone has their own brand. However this place doesnt fit into the usual paradigm of the magic consensus. So here it is. Im glad I did because someone who reads this may get some great info to their own application of how it can “work”.

With that said, If you are clueless I would definately suggest adopting a yoga program, to clear out blockages and get comfortable with the mind set of the theta gamma sync. Limitless potential. Accompany that with research (cant stress that enough) plus this forum is gold and ea’s official releases. If you are still clueless buy the courses. Seriously, if you cant get your shit together from that, well I dont know how to help you. I got where I am at just by evoking eternity and stuff around here. Not that I dont support ea, I just never had to buy the courses. Im just saying there is a wealth of info around here. If you are still confused book a consultation and cut the bullshit.


#10

sevarn304, love you post. Im pretty much on the same page with you. If you can do it yourself managing your affairs will be a difficult task. For me I worked for years fucking that perverbial football. Then when it started working it seemed like I was cheating. Naturally boredom came. So, perfecting what I know is where I am at. You can always learn something new.

I dont think evocation is completely out of the question, I just can see myself asking a foreign entity to do my dirty work. There was a time I didnt see it that way. Sev I can compete with a dragon, that sounds pretty bizarre. However, the video ea did on the 3 headed dragon. Even though it was a bust, it was still cool to watch. I guess that sort of experimentation could be something I may be into.

Thanks for the replies, if you have more you would like to comment on please do. Or pm me if you dont want to post in public.


#11

I don’t evoke for desires or physical outcomes. I evoke for contact with an entity for the purpose of learning from them on ascent. Gaining material pleasure isn’t the only reason for evocation.


#12

The most powerful magick ins the stuff that clicks with you. Humans get extremely lazy; they want someone to have already charted out work for them to do. Because of this, our ability to innovate is far below our potential, and in most realms we get fairly proud of ourselves for achieving pretty little. The same applies for evocation; there’s a lot of hype for it because it contains a lot of facets that are exciting to people. Yet, when you look at the scope of what folks use it to achieve, at least in a public sense… it’s not really much to be that excited about.

Material gain, knowledge, energy… these are all things that can be acquired without entity involvement. It can add a personal dimension, but aside from that there is no necessity to have entities involved. It would all be based on you; if the stuff works, whatever the reason, then there is no reason to pine for someone else’s work. Most modern evocationists would not be close to as effective magically than even a beginner yogi in acquiring wealth, personal power, or primordial knowledge, and yet evocation is a small part of yogic ascent paths. But due to modern hubris and ignorance, we would never actually know that, and try to analyze things from our idea of what we think a path is (i.e. meditation: yogic meditation is actually started from the delta state of mind, but all our modern information talks about meditation from the alpha perspective).

So it is up to you, and I think Sevarn said this in another post, but no one can really tell you what or how to do something. Evocation might be the most powerful thing for EA Koetting, but you and I are not EA Koetting


#13

evocation is a siddhi and a useful one but it’s not the only one. use whatever works for you and discard the rest.


#14

For me, Evocation and Invocation just define the area where I want the results of my magic to occur. Either within me for invocation, our outside of me for evocation.

So evocation is essential. What’s not necessary is limiting your evocations to only using anthropomorphized constructs. You can evoke much simpler things that don’t need to be alive.


#15

wow, these are all good post. Thanks for all of your insights.

For me there is always room to grow. I guess getting into it you kinda tend to want to measure your success. Physical outcomes. Then when you get further along the spiral you tend to get what you want in some aspects. I just had better luck doing my own thing, that has lead me outside of the grimoire paradigm. Its refreshing to see other peoples perspectives. Stay grounded and try to find a way to break your personal limitations.

I hope someone can get something out of this post.


#16

There are some interesting arguments about why physical evocation IS necessary in this old thread: http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/mastering-evocation-omnipotence/physical-vs-visible-evocation-which-is-better/

There are some quality posts back in the older threads on here and they definitely repay the time spent skimming through them.


#17

In my experience (and very short experience with evocation).

The results comming from sigil magick are less especific while those that comes from evocation can be more detailed.

Also evocation grants great levels of communication and insane level of knowledge gathering (but that also happens with deep meditation).

Sigil magic, when opening the sigil of an entity, for me is like evocation in the minimal level, whilst evocation is like sigil magic taked to the furthest level preparation.

I see it like that because when you open the sigil of the entity, the feelings of their presence as well as any weird sight of them, depends on your level of development on the astral senses, just like in evocation, but since evocation is a chain of actions and intentions that ends up creating a critical mass of “magical power” or whatever it feels incredible more deep and really feels like stepping in another reality.

Perhaps because sigil magic is simpler, the contrast between the performing and the moments after psychological retraction is less to the contrast when you’re in the evocation and after the ritual. It surely depends on the level of your TGS.

Still, you can get really good results with sigil opening.

The thing about magic is that is always seem to be more than what you know and do already, so is not like “Okay, I’ll just need this method and is enough”, no, it always evolve, like an adiction to drugs, there is more than just weed, but some are shrooms and some are crocodile, so… don’t use drugs.


#18

In which way would physical evocation be > to pure astral ones ? (going into the astral realms to meet spirits)

For me the latter has greater advantages&benefits and in some ways is easier than physical evocation


#19

Evocation IMO is nothing but a display of power to your subconscious. In my experience, if you can focus, condense energy and direct it with the stamp of intent, you’re set.