Is Batman a Black Magician?

Hey All,

We’ve had some rockin’ debates lately about serious topics like the nature of God and stuff, so I thought it was time for something a little more lighthearted (and geeky). I pose to you, fellow members of BALG, the question ‘Is Batman a Black Magician?’

In my opinion, he is. Here is why:

  1. He has developed himself to his physical and mental peak, yet he is always striving for more.
  2. He plays by his own set of rules.
  3. He has a vision of perfection towards which he constantly strives.
  4. He is guided by his own moral code. His actions are not dictated by anyone else.
  5. He watches, and manipulates, people and events, including those close to him.
  6. He is a master strategist and tactician. He studies both weaknesses and strengths.
  7. He never looks for the easy way. He has had many chances to become superhuman, and he has always turned it down.
  8. He has an indomitable will.
  9. He has some of the siddhas (sp?) of the yogis, like the ability to go without sleep for weeks, and to slow his autonomic functions to fake death.
  10. He has gone toe to toe with “gods” and spit in their faces.

So, what is your opinion? And please remember this is all in good fun so keep the insults to a minimum :slight_smile: Let the debate commence!

8 Likes

[quote=“DarkestKnight, post:1, topic:2544”]Hey All,

We’ve had some rockin’ debates lately about serious topics like the nature of God and stuff, so I thought it was time for something a little more lighthearted (and geeky). I pose to you, fellow members of BALG, the question ‘Is Batman a Black Magician?’

In my opinion, he is. Here is why:

  1. He has developed himself to his physical and mental peak, yet he is always striving for more.
  2. He plays by his own set of rules.
  3. He has a vision of perfection towards which he constantly strives.
  4. He is guided by his own moral code. His actions are not dictated by anyone else.
  5. He watches, and manipulates, people and events, including those close to him.
  6. He is a master strategist and tactician. He studies both weaknesses and strengths.
  7. He never looks for the easy way. He has had many chances to become superhuman, and he has always turned it down.
  8. He has an indomitable will.
  9. He has some of the siddhas (sp?) of the yogis, like the ability to go without sleep for weeks, and to slow his autonomic functions to fake death.
  10. He has gone toe to toe with “gods” and spit in their faces.

So, what is your opinion? And please remember this is all in good fun so keep the insults to a minimum :slight_smile: Let the debate commence![/quote]

I suppose it kind of depends on your opinion of what makes a black magician a black magician. I consider myself a grey magician and even something of a magical vigilante though perhaps not quite as dedicated as batman to that particular cause. I gotta say though if I went up against the joker or someone else of the like I wouldn’t hesitate to completely annihilate them wheras batman goes out of his way to avoid doing so. Of course you did bring up some good points as to why he’s like a black magician too, so I wouldn’t call him white either. I would say he’s also grey like me, though perhaps a slightly lighter shade.

1 Like

[quote=“defectron, post:2, topic:2544”][quote=“DarkestKnight, post:1, topic:2544”]Hey All,

We’ve had some rockin’ debates lately about serious topics like the nature of God and stuff, so I thought it was time for something a little more lighthearted (and geeky). I pose to you, fellow members of BALG, the question ‘Is Batman a Black Magician?’

In my opinion, he is. Here is why:

  1. He has developed himself to his physical and mental peak, yet he is always striving for more.
  2. He plays by his own set of rules.
  3. He has a vision of perfection towards which he constantly strives.
  4. He is guided by his own moral code. His actions are not dictated by anyone else.
  5. He watches, and manipulates, people and events, including those close to him.
  6. He is a master strategist and tactician. He studies both weaknesses and strengths.
  7. He never looks for the easy way. He has had many chances to become superhuman, and he has always turned it down.
  8. He has an indomitable will.
  9. He has some of the siddhas (sp?) of the yogis, like the ability to go without sleep for weeks, and to slow his autonomic functions to fake death.
  10. He has gone toe to toe with “gods” and spit in their faces.

So, what is your opinion? And please remember this is all in good fun so keep the insults to a minimum :slight_smile: Let the debate commence![/quote]

I suppose it kind of depends on your opinion of what makes a black magician a black magician. I consider myself a grey magician and even something of a magical vigilante though perhaps not quite as dedicated as batman to that particular cause. I gotta say though if I went up against the joker or someone else of the like I wouldn’t hesitate to completely annihilate them wheras batman goes out of his way to avoid doing so. Of course you did bring up some good points as to why he’s like a black magician too, so I wouldn’t call him white either. I would say he’s also grey like me, though perhaps a slightly lighter shade.[/quote]Excellent points, defectron! Batman only has two rules: No killing, and no firearms. Everything else is far game.

Consider the following:

He has many different bodies (ranging from West to Affleck)
He has a fondness for gadgets.
He is incredibly intelligent, able to outwit aliens and gods.
He has saved countless inhabitants, of numerous worlds many times over.
No stranger to time travel or alternate universes.
And his belt appears to be bigger in the inside.

Therefore dear BALGers I submit that The Batman is in all actually…a Timelord.

2 Likes

[quote author=Orismen link=topic=2605.msg32467#msg32467 date=1392170821]
Consider the following:

He has many different bodies (ranging from West to Affleck)
He has a fondness for gadgets.
He is incredibly intelligent, able to outwit aliens and gods.
He has saved countless inhabitants, of numerous worlds many times over.
No stranger to time travel or alternate universes.
And his belt appears to be bigger in the inside.

Therefore dear BALGers I submit that The Batman is in all actually…a Timelord.
[/quote

Not a Timelord, simply Timelord

The biggest point to consider is Bruce Wayne Batman because he wants to be or feels he needs to be? Is his purpose self agrandizement or humble servant? I think he gets the best of both worlds in this regard due to his alter ego. Someone like Clark Kent/Superman on the other hand could easily be seen as white where Wayne/Batman has a lot more going on. I look at him as similar to The Punisher in that regard, of course Punisher is no where as adept.

It is often said in the comics (usually by magical characters like Dr. Fate) that Bruce Wayne is the mask worn to hide the true face, which is the Batman. There is quite the dichotomy between the mask and the man. I see him more black than grey, mainly, I think, because of his indomitable will to succeed, regardless of opposition, and his willingness to do whatever he feels is necessary to accomplish his goals.
Superman, by contrast, would be the epitome of a white magician. For all his power, he is limited by his chosen moral code, which binds him to certain forms of thought and action. His mask of Clark Kent, isn’t really a mask because he accepts it as his true identity, not Kal-El, and definitely not Superman.

His super power is his will and self control, he’s got invocation down, displays masterful use of his paradigm. Magician for sure.

Anyway to further elaborate on why I believe batman is more of a grey magician has to do with his vigilante work ethic. When I was first getting into the occult and practicing scrying, the spirits would show me alot of visions of batman and catowoman. The reason being is because on the occult level I would later on be doing alot of stuff energetically that they do physically. Not sure if any of you ever watch Nostalgia critic , but in one of his recent videos he actually talks about why batman and catwoman are similar characters but also why they are different. In regards to my moral alignment I think I’m alot closer to catwoman in that I’m not afraid to cross certain bounderies to get the job done that batman just wouldn’t cross.

Batman does what he does because he feels its nessecery to make the world a better place. Making the world a better place is also one of the reasons why I do that on an energectic level. However reality has certain demands that fiction will sometimes skirt the issues of. I always make sure that if I fight a “villain” I a: have something to gain from it, and B: it’s actually someone or something worth fighting. Batman will beat up muggers and not ask for anything in return. I wouldn’t attack a mugger unless they took something important from me because it would be a waste of energy on multiple levels. At best I’d most likely just get some paltry insignifigant energy from the mugger as payment and the world wouldn’t be a much better place either after he’s out of the picture. Thats why I choose my adversaries very carefully, of course sometimes they choose me, but if they have enough ability to actually get my attention that means their worth my time as well.

What happens if you just go beating up every badguy you run across without asking anything in return? You get knightfall is what, batman ran himself ragged in that and ended up getting his back broken for his trouble. Thats why if I try to make the world a better place I make sure to get something in return and also its helpful if the joker doesn’t just escape every other issue to give you more trouble.

I find it very interesting indeed that the spirits showed you visions of Batman and Catwoman in an occult context, defectron. And you are right, about Batman getting nothing in return for his work. He has sacrificed everything he was, to become what he is, with no expectation of anything. In fact, his existence is pretty dour. So, maybe he is a darker shade of grey, rather than straight black. Hmmm…much to ponder.

1 Like

Lol Batman ain’t got nothing on Mumra from the thundercats now he was the best!

I can’t believe that this thread exists!

This is extremely relevant to the conversation.

http://moonheadpress.blogspot.ca/2013/11/the-deal.html

[quote=“Orismen, post:4, topic:2544”]Consider the following:

He has many different bodies (ranging from West to Affleck)
He has a fondness for gadgets.
He is incredibly intelligent, able to outwit aliens and gods.
He has saved countless inhabitants, of numerous worlds many times over.
No stranger to time travel or alternate universes.
And his belt appears to be bigger in the inside.

Therefore dear BALGers I submit that The Batman is in all actually…a Timelord.[/quote]

This here killed me, which is good, because usually when this forum makes me laught it’s not really funny at all :wink:

Mumra might be a black magician, but imo he’s not a very smart black magician, he spent how many seasons trying to kill Liono without succeeding?

And what about Harry Potter? Little Red Ridinghood and the big bad wolf? Hansel and Gretel? Cinderellla and Snow White and the seven dwarfs? The three little Pigs?

*facepalm

Harry Potter’s a fucking little grass who delivers his people into slavery after the freedom fighter Voldemort tries to finally overthrow muggle tyranny… okay, I get you maybe think this topic’s daft, but actual real kids take their values from cultural icons, and when “heroes” like HP make out that the best way to be, is to be a disempowered controlled muggle or a grassing little wizard who doesn’t ever use magick overtly, I think it kind of matters?

Also, a lot of black magicians find themselves intially shunned by society, so probably have a slightly higher than average interest in “lonely kid pursuits” like comics, anime, whatever… I know I did, and what’s out there really matters because 99% of stuff, from X-Men to HP onwards, implies that bog-standard workaday muggle is the best and sacred way to be, and anyone different is either evil and must be totally eliminated, or to be “good” they have to become the disposable servitor of the muggle world’s safety, a fantasy you see in conventional Xian renderings of “Jesus’s” story, and everything since, in which the less you’re normal, the more you’re expendable.

JMO! :wink:

Let’s not forget that Harry literally tossed away two artifices from Death itself, the resurrection stone and the Elder Wand.

Haha yeah I totally wouldve kept those.

Personally I always identified more with antihero characters like venom, catwoman or Boba Fett rather then outright villains or heros and well I consider myself to be a grey magician so I can see what ladyeva is saying in how fictional works may influence a persons path.

2 Likes

Well, I don’t get it, but maybe that’s because I outgrew my childhood.