I think karma exists change my mind

Then lust spells, attraction spells. Hell all spells done on anyone but yourself are evil. Making fame, fortune. These all come at a cost.

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Hillary Clinton is proof enough that karma doesn’t exist. So is Trump. So was Castro. People do horrible things every day and get away scot free.

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:no_mouth::no_mouth:

I guess that makes me and the magic i do evil. I’m good with that. I even have a theme song.

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Lol I love that song.

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All right then what about rape and murder

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What of them?

Some people justify them. It all depends on your view.

Killing someone with curses, murder. Changing someone to make them love you, rape. Things can be seem different ways.

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One of my favorite songs.
I personally don’t think there’s any sort of karma that you don’t make yourself. If you feel guilt about doing something you feel is wrong, even subconsciously, that can easily draw negative spirits/energies which result in bad things happening to you. Of course other people/spirits/deities can also decide to act if they find your actions questionable to them.

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Neither rape nor murder are evil or any other action. It is all subjective based on what level you are on and your own views. Rape and murder are perfectly good and wholesome if you are for example a follower of a certain religion. In the end it doesn’t matter. They might be impractical and the act of a savage depending on how and why and what the effects are on yourself but if you benefit and do not stand to suffer and have the will and desire than why not?

The universe doesn’t care beyond insuring that all laws are followed but these are not moralistic laws but more akin to the laws of physics. You aren’t going to be able to use magick unless you follow those laws whether you know them or not. If you try to go against natural laws that is going to end as badly for you as running face first into a brick wall and expecting it to move for you and is akin to doing so.

Karma in its essence that you are talking about is merely social programming and stigma that has infected your mind to make it real through basically a placebo effect. The original idea of Karma before it was twisted to mean this actually referred to spiritual baggage you would pick up by obsession of deeds which causes your idea of Karma but also drags you down and lowers you with the vibrations of those thoughts and actions. Such as when someone dies with a longing for revenge and never moves on but rather lingers twisted and tortured as some spirit by the desire they never released. What it means is to learn to let go of your desires and actions when the time comes and to not obsess over them past their time and so doing keep your soul clean of varied mental muck that would weigh you down.

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I did a write up on this about a million years ago. If you believe in sort of cosmic retribution then the universe is going to respond in kind. Not because karma (as cosmic retribution) is some universal law but because you yourself colored your magic to behave that way.

Karma is simply cause and effect. If I perform a curse on someone, that represents a cause. My targets misfortune is the effect. The idea that there is someone sitting on a cloud keeping a tally and doling out reward and punishment is a corruption of the actual principle.

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Are they bad?

So, back to the dialogue at hand.

Karma is a specific concept in the Hindu lexicon. It is strongly attached to the individual and their dharma. If a person’s dharma is to be a pacifist, they will gain helpful karma by staying true to that path. If a person’s dharma is to be a soldier, they will have a very different path and be judged accordingly. Maybe there’s such a thing as crazy serial killer dharma.

The more Western idea of karma is, “As ye sew, so shall ye reap.”
I think that makes a certain sense, but the world is full of assholes who get ahead by pushing other people down. You’d pretty much need judgement in the hereafter to straighten things out.

In the long run, everything is everything. Try to get along with yourself.

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I like that.

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Only if you view them to be bad.

I could make say a rich relative have a heart attack and drive off a cliff with a curse. Most people will see that as bad or evil but to me it is good because I never knew him much or particularly liked him and I stand to benefit indirectly from those who get the inheritance and so to me it was good. It would also be good for the people he lorded his wealth over but bad for the rest of his family and those he might have employed for example but I do not know or care about those people and they have no affect on me and so are not something I will concern myself with.

It is all how you choose to view things. You own beliefs and code of conduct or those you choose to follow.

Let’s assume that karma as cosmic justice is a thing. It may be that cursing said individual was his karmic punishment because of something he did in a past life and that you were the instrument of his karma. How does someone know that such is the case? The waters get really muddy when you start thinking along those lines.

Generally, in eastern religions, karma whether good or bad was seen as a bad thing because it kept people in the wheel of reincarnation. It represents attachments to this world. Justice has nothing to do with it. I always suspected that theosophists somewhat mangled the concept by equating it with judgement. If anyone is doing any judging in the afterlife, I suspect people are doing it to themselves

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Karma is real. It is powerful magick. You must defend against it by standing up as sorcerer that thinks for themselves. You must use it to attract what you want and can even use it against (or for) people that fear it.

I’m jiving with some of the others. Karma is what happens when you do stupid shit that you KNOW is stupid , or ‘evil’ by your personal definition and your internal program is such that it makes you pay for your sins.

So you kick a cat, and then you have a terrible day. Why? Because you are an asshole and you know it. Fuck you for kicking a cat, I hope you crush your fingers in the door. (That sorta deal!)

Some of the programming isn’t “bad”, but as long as you are the one that programmed it, its fine. When you are just a brainwashed dime-a-dozen fool (like most of us at some point perhaps) then “karma” affects you when you don’t even realize. Ride the wave! Ups and downs.

Next step up is the karma fearing tool. Poor bastard’s magic can’t get too potent … oh no … that would be ‘bad’ … so karma fucks Him that way too. Never rich, never famous, never get what he wants. Karma took his fucking teeth and claws away. Can’t take what he wants. Can’t win.

Karma is real. Long live karma. Fuck karma too.

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The universe is run by a system of energy currents with absolutely no moral direction. The idea of good and evil is inherently subjective. Still There’s a consequence to each action. If you want to call this Karma then go ahead. Just don’t rely on it. One day someone told me “It’s not anyone’s job to police the world.” I responded by saying that taking action against what we consider a threat or offence is not policing, its survival. We all have the right to protect ourselves and those we care about. Though we’ll deal with the consequences later. Hence why I prefer to work within some moral parameter. Better than raising someone’s ire and deserving it.

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Karma=consequences for ones action. For example: you commit a crime, you get arrested. It’s not quite what everyone makes it out to be.

This ^^^

Karma, as Westerns understand the term, is really the result of Theosophy mixing its love of the “mysterious East” with basic Christian moralizing.

Cause and effect. You do something bad, something bad happens to you. No “karma” and no morality involved. If you punch someone in the face, and they bunch you back, it’s just consequence.

Like I posted in the “make someone gay” thread, a possible consequence of his magick, is his target committing suicide. If that is a consequence he is fine with, then onward and upwards.

That being said, sometimes a “Higher Power” will judge you for what you do. This apparently happened to me in a past life. I was a greedy, evil man who caused untold suffering, so some being took notice and slapped me down, binding my ability to prosper in this life, and possibly the next, until I make amends.

Some could call that karma, but it wasn’t the act of the universe, just one particular god (whose identity I wish I knew 'cause, you know, payback and stuff).

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Well said. Karma is a superstitious human’s construct. The Universe doesn’t give a hoot. Many people don’t give a hoot.

As a sorcerer however, I want to tap into the idea of Karma that drives millions of people and keeps them dull and mostly peaceful albeit conflicted and plagued with a multitude of mental issues.

Tap into Karma and its effect on people, and you get close to the core.