I think I get it now...The importance of Gender

I do agree that the soul is the purest form of yourself but at the same time i believe that you can have the opposite side more potent. Females acting manlier and males acting more like females. Purely because i have met some very attractive manly females. Of course this comes down to my view of what is manly and what is not so imma detail it a bit: she had an immense will to act and most of the time she did, she was the one to make decisions when people around her didnt know what they wanted or when others had bad ideas, she was the one to come to give better alternatives, as well as she used to argue with everybody challanging her and most of the time she won. Appearance is another thing that i believe reflects your more potent side as males try to look more menacing (in our case huge ass muscles and 5m tall) while females try to look more attractive. If you as a man strife to become more attractive to females by looking “pretty” to me that is a sign that your female side is at work more than the male one, and thats okay, if you want to get bigger and think that females will be attracted to you because that would give her the feeling of safety thats a clear sign your male part is at work. And i think these have to do a whole lot with the soul, mainly because if you look at the gay and trans comunity years ago, altho they were indoctrinated it s a wrong thing, they still went through with it because they felt that way. What you truly feel is what you are as far as i can say.

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Sounds like a respectable woman.

Thing is, I think a distinction between society’s idea of masculine and feminine and occult masculine and feminine must be made, because society is heavily influenced by their biological imperatives. Occult definitions, ironically, are more precise in this context.

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Ow… could you share the occult definitions in that case so it s clear to me we see things in the same way? Because so far in my experience i discerned the beings by what they struck me as first, i wasnt aware there are actual definitions.

Tomboys can be quite sexy too. These girls are still feminine but they have some valued traits from the masculine side.

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I’ve had some issues where gender is concerned but mine seems to be opposite of yours. I’m a woman. I have a strong feeling and idea of myself as a feminine being. But everyone keeps trying to get me to identify as masculine or androgynous because that is how THEY see me and they want to shove me in that box they made. I am assertive. I am motivated, I value Strength though I don’t see it as a purely physical thing. I have been involved in sports that are considered male dominated. Blah blah blah. These things are not inherently masculine. My struggle was one that was forced on me because I feel like a very strong feminine being but everyone else was trying to convince me otherwise. I decided that they simply have the wrong idea about what is feminine and threw out the whole androgynous thing because it never felt right. Others may see me that way but I am not. I am feminine. I am a woman, and if I don’t fit someone else’s idea about what feminine means then they can just get over it because that’s what I am.

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This I will agree with.

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To me, things like being submissive or being passive are not inherently feminine. ‘Outward behavior’ is how you conduct yourself. Although appearance does not imply manifestation of one energy or the other, I think it is important that the way you present yourself be congruent with it.

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Props to you and all power to you for standing up and having your own way. But for the sake of debate, some objective traits must be taken into consideration. You can play every sport there is, be as hot tempered as you want, hell even have a beard (not saying that any of these apply to you besides the sports one) as a woman, you can still be feminine in the way you act and think.

For this i cannot speak. There are norms determined by society, be it norms made by physionomy, or the society surrounding you, or ocult norms, no matter which one is at play, people will be judgemental based upon their system. Most humans go by the social norms and that is not a matter of the soul as far as i regard it, it s just a matter of how people see you. And while that might have put you through a lot of problems, we cannot ask others to change their norms so we feel comfortable because then it all turns into the “what makes you comfortable makes me.uncomfortable and vice versa” problem where someone has to be given an advantage over the other and the whole equality between humans deal gets thrown out of the window.

As for this, what i mean is that if you feel feminine as a man, thats fine and dandy, if you feel masculine as a woman that is just as fine and dandy. Because there is no problem with being a tomboy for example and still acting feminine altho there might be some male traits displayed from time to time, but if male behaviour is everything one displays, i believe it to be unfair to just widen the feminine specter of traits so one could be regarded as feminine.

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Yeah, we already have enough snowflakes as it is. I’m fucking tired of this “respect me for what I am. Change your views or I be bad towards you”.

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I’m actually not concerned with changing social norms. I’m more concerned with shedding the contraints they might put on me.

And when talking about social norms we also have to recognize that they vary across cultures and time.

And if a male identifies as feminine or vice versa that’s fine and dandy with me to. I have a friend who is trans and he is your typical macho dude to the T but is transitioning as a woman because he feels as though he is a woman and feminine. Yet he acts like everything people would associate and think of as masculine and will tell you that these are his true characteristics, but he is still a woman amd still feels like a feminine being. ( I call him he still because he is waiting for the VA to get the funding for the surgery and said it’s fine until things get going and wont be a dick about it if people find it hard to start calling him she/her )

Broadening definitions aside, it’s no one’s place to tell someone else that they have to identify with the definitions that another has in place when they have a firm idea and belief of themselves as what they are. So however anyone defines these things in any context we aren’t going to be able to come to anything conclusive that will encompass everyone.

I also didn’t think that we were debating I thought this was a discussion about how the construct of gender plays into our practices and growth as practicioners, which may vary. And I was giving my piece on that.

Though we disagree I respect your opionions. They are your own and the way you see yourself and the world you live in and work Magick through.

For what I vibrate towards, I’m a male being that is on the dark side of female sexuality or a “hypermale”. Which means, I’m incredibly sexual and just as destructive.

Well i am glad you didnt feel offended, thst was not the aim. And i use the term debate loosely as a synonym for discussion. But, i dont get what you mean by

[quote=“V_Alex44, post:30, topic:28130”]
I have a friend who is trans and he is your typical macho dude to the T but is transitioning as a woman because he feels as though he is a woman and feminine
[/quote].
What do you mean by being macho? Because what i understand from this term is that he is confident and has sexual appeal that helps him to get a lot of hook ups. If that is the case, i should say that i don t find sexual attraction to be a trait assigned to a single gender, just that the way females find males attractive is different from the other way around.

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Oh fuck yes it is. In many ancient cultures androgynous people were considered a sort of demi-god, because they were naturally born into physicality with a kind of balance that most have to strive a lifetime to achieve.

Vey, very cool @Baal. I am very happy to find that it has brought your magick to the next level. It kind of proves certain aspects of Hermetic science, like gender and knowing thyself.

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(Update)

How the fuck did i not notice that my name has Alpha in it.

jazz hands the powa of majik

I agree. Its not a matter of whether everyone adores your choice of who you want to be today, its a matter of pushing/projecting energy, or reversing/pulling energy. So gender has pretty much nothing to do with how the human views themself in society, it has everything to do with the push or pull of energy. Unless I have the idea twisted.

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Indeed! This was the case in many different cultures. Thank you. :slight_smile:

@Fuego1 @Drugstep yes, occult gender has more to do with absorb/push energy, whereas society’s view of gender is an offshoot of their biological imperative. Societal view of gender has more to do with sex tbh.

here’s a video that explains it quite well

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I should have put “typical macho dude to the T” in parentheses. I was trying to convey that this person fits the general male stereotype so to speak. But he is a she, as she identifies to be.

My apologies for the confusion.

And I’m pretty hard to offend. So don’t ever worry about that. :blue_heart:

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Awesome video.

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