So I recently met this guy that I thought was cool at first. Turns out he’s a born again Christian. He said he practiced occultism and gotten involved with some crazy groups that did animal sacrifice. He gotten all this material success, but attracted the attention of some very malevolent spirits. Alongside drug addiction, by the way. I’d say he got what he deserved for who he got mixed up with. However, he didn’t see it that way and acted as if his experience is universal. I just found him insufferable.
Jack asses like that guy bite off more than they can chew. Then they fuck up their own lives because of it. They turn to Christ and think they’re cured. Then they have the audacity to think they’ve found “The Truth.” I don’t care for Christians. I especially don’t like these ex-magician Christians. You weren’t careful. You mixed with the wrong crowd. You gotten yourself in trouble, and now you’re fucked. If you wanna turn your back on the work you’ve done, fine. Just don’t go around bragging about how you’ve been saved like you’re someone special. You are just an idiot trying to escape from the consequences of your own reckless actions. Other people did things differently and they’re fine. Honestly, sometimes I wonder if Christ is the one pulling strings in these demonic attacks that bring people to him.
I think they’re looking for the archetype of the God-Man who is transcendent above all lesser beings, but instead of doing the powerful thing and looking within, they turn to this external model… which is part of the age-old monotheistic con-game (“God” is out there and you must grovel and do what “He” says).
The argument that Jesus (the person, or maybe group) was an advanced magician who combined hermetic “see yourself AS the god” methods outlined in the PGM with Hindu-style theology and mastered this is the only reason I don’t totally dismiss Christianity as a tool for magick. And that this so terrified some people they decided to flip to flip things around and pervert the teachings to compel people to never be able to go there again, melding magick and mysticism, and self-identity with the All.
Pretty much every Christian concedes there are various things very wrong with the establishment face of the various churches, and some teachings that got attached later, so my view is hardly controversial.
Ugh not all of us Christians are like that. Lots of different ideas abound when it comes to Christianity and the Godhead. For example, many Christians believe magic is fundamentally wrong because it was supposedly taught to us via fallen angels before the flood and goes against the will of god. Some point to the verse about not suffering a witch to live and the passages about necromancy and the example where jesus (yeshua) cast out a divining spirit from a woman who was shouting about who he really was to everyone in the streets. Some believe ( I’m a part of this group) that magic was never outlawed in the bible and that the verse about witches was mistranslated with the actual verse being about poisoners. Like women who would kill people with poison. There are other instances to point out as well about how people often used magick in the bible. And not to mention Kabbala is a thing so, that means God didn’t consider magick itself sinful. I think the main point for Christians who practice magick is that we believe that God is the source and we must never forget that.
It’s also interesting to note that some historians believe that verse was actually altered because of King James’ fear of witches or the Catholic church not wanting people to practice magick.
I eas greatly disappointed when I found out that she left working with Angels. I used to find her work interesting but then she turned into a “Jesus freak”.
The thing about the Occult is that you will learn things that WILL scare you. You will want to back down but provided you know what you’re doing and work with Spirits which YOU are comfortable with, you will be fine.
I almost backed out at least 5 times but I didn’t. I WILL NOT be a sheep again!
The thing is that Jesus and other similar beliefs bring comfort when one is scared due to the Brainwashing some of us are subjected to.
Also I doubt Jesus is pulling the strings, he is an ascended master who does care about Humanity. However I think that the Christians created a Jesus egregore which could engage in this (just an off theory).
I think it´s the Ahura Mazda that is pulling the strings in the backround. Ever since I abolished all the negative consequences of that guy, the only thing I have reveived is curses. He is pretending to be the christian god.
I get it. He mixed with the wrong crowd and paid the price. Now he’s trying to fix it. If the guy would’ve said it that way, I wouldn’t be so steamed. However, I’ve never met a born again who ever takes responsibility for their own fuck ups.
He said it was a Satanist group. Well, many of the satanists I’ve met have been intelligent and mentally stable. He said “That’s the problem.” Apparently being intelligent makes you vulnerable to evil spirits. It’s better to blindly trust in God.
Thing is different people have different experiences. Two people can get involved with the occult and come out with two different experiences. One’s life is enriched and the other’s life is threatened. This is dependent on tons of different variables. However, the same can be said with mainstream religion. Becoming a Christian can enrich one person’s life while another can get him or her self into trouble. My friend’s grandmother has been swindled by a megachurch cult. So just because this guy fucked himself over, doesn’t mean everyone will. It’s how a person works their path that matters, not the path itself.
I shouldn’t be so angry, but this was in a scene where I’m typically emotionally vulnerable.
Weeeeeeellllllllll…as a former Christian, the situation is complex.
Some Christians who are saved or born again use this to draw attention to themselves, fishing for praise and compliments. Or using it to feel superior to the rest of us unsaved.
Also, being saved (whether by Jesus or Krishna or Allah) means the abdication of responsibility, which many people find liberating. They think everyone should enjoy this “freedom”.
And, @davethebarbarian, you are correct that it is very frustrating when people involved in magick, in the occult, or even in New Age stuff, claim some major demonic problem - all because of their stupidity - which was resolved when they were saved or born again. That said, this is such a common trope, that I genuinely wonder how truthful such people are being when describing such incidents. Such people tend to like to put themselves in such a depraved position pre-salvation, that they tend to exaggerate and engage in hyperbole. All for the sake of Christ - all’s fair in love and war, right? They’re waging a war against evil, and they love all humanity and want them to be saved.
And I had no idea Doreen Virtue betrayed us. Such a shame.
ExTenebrisVictoria, I had heard about Doreen Virtue’s “conversion.”
“They’re waging a war against evil, and they love all humanity and want them to be saved.” I am very critical of the word love. I feel as if it’s used as an excuse to force one’s self on to someone else. This goes especially when religion’s involved.
And yes, the only thing they are being “saved” from is responsibility. Frankly, I’d rather go to the underworld, face my fears, learn more about myself and why I do as I do, work to improve myself and grow stronger. So long as I get a bit of pleasure alongside the challenges. That’s my liberation.
I tend to feel different. Belief is the product of the rational mind. It’s a means to motivate. However, we as humans have this habit of thinking belief means objective truth. So we become emotionally invested in our beliefs that we sometimes force them onto others, I.E. the subject of the post.
I tend to think that belief isn’t necessarily truth but what we wish to be true, the ideal. Belief is influenced by several factors, such as either social conditioning or experience. However, it’s mostly based on what we desire and what we fear.
Fear and Desire to me are very primal, therefore going further than the rational human mind. It’s not necessarily your belief that affects the world but your desires and fears. Not every entity has the capacity to believe, but all things can desire and fear. Belief is used to strengthen desire, but it isn’t strong on its own.
Like I said. Belief isn’t truth but what we wish to be true. It’s something like suspended disbelief. You convince yourself to accept something to be real to concentrate your desires and will. If our will is strong enough, it becomes real. But nothing will happen without the desire for it.
I attribute belief to celestial powers and desire/fear to infernal powers.
You have to keep in mind that these people had different experiences than you. They had, what they perceive as a genuine spiritual experience, regardless of your opinion on that matter and what you personally think about their conclusions. I had a lot of experiences too that I am certain no one else can relate to, and it used to make me feel very lonely and isolated. And then I decided that the experiences, sure they changed me, how I view the world and my personal choices, but that is no reason not to connect with others and help them towards mutually beneficial goals.
I think you’re mixing up Jesus and Paul (Acts 16:16-18).
The Hebrew word translated as witch in Exodus 22:18 is mekhashepha which comes from the root word _ kashaph_ which means mutterings. It refers to women who would cast a spell with their mutterings, and mutterings has nothing to do with poisoning.
sigh There’s so much wrong with this statement it’s going to be hard to unpack. Firstly, the King James Version was neither created by, nor created by the commission of, the Catholic Church. It was created by King James I, the King of England, and Head of the Anglican Church which had severed its ties with the Catholic Church in 1534 AD, a good 70 years before the publication of the King James Bible in 1618 AD.
While there are many errors in the manuscripts translated into the King James Version, the modern translations are much closer to the autographs (original texts) of the various books of the Bible than the ones in circulation at the time of the King James Bible. And while modern translations don’t possess such errors like the Johannine Comma, the Pericope Adulterae, or the doxology of the Lord’s Prayer, among others. They all still refer to the mekhashepha of Exodus 22:18 as some form of witch. It’s not a mistranslation, if it were it wouldn’t be present anymore.
