How will I know I'm ready to go for it? (Manipulation)

Ok, I’ll be honest here. I want to manipulate someone magically. I listened to Koetting’s video on this subject recently and honestly it struck me as a good starting point, a place to get my feet wet in something a bit darker than I am used to. (Though as he I feel so rationally explained it, it’s not actually so dark a thing at all. We are all manipulative and manipulated every day just living our lives.) My basic situation here is that I have a couple of people who have practically taken it over, invaded my home, my personal space, my time, caused me to spend endless amounts of money and run up my bills. Having tried everything to get them to stop this with no success I came upon the manipulation video, and it occurred to me that I want to make them WANT to move away and give me my life back. I reason that it;s hardly “bad” to do this anyway, to manipulate them into leaving since they are clearly already manipulating ME psychologically. Is my ethical reasoning correct here? Also in doing this, I feel like I would actually be helping them as well as myself, since that sort of on-going dependency on another human being is not healthy or normal and I could see them then learn to stand alone.

Now having decided I am really going to do this eventually, I am slightly unclear as to WHO to actually direct my working at. Since one clearly makes the final decisions in life and the other seemingly happily follows their lead, it makes far more sense to me to direct my will at the leader than at the follower. The follower will follow once he leaves town because I made him want to. But… if they do leave, even with use of a ritual, they will need somewhere to go to live, (the obstacle that kept them here in the first place.) Should I then instead be directing at at someone who will take them in? This is where things get complicated. Ip;m admittedly not sure exactly how to proceed with this.

Advice and considerations anyone?

As for ethic’s, you have to decide on your own standards. Then live up to them or not. This is all about making your life the way YOU want it.

Don’t worry about the ‘how to’ details, that’s what the magic takes care of. Focus on the final result you want, get really clear on that, and then fire up the magic technique of your choice and forget about it.

Edit:

Also, you’ll know you are ready when you take action. The point is to act once you decide what you want. Maybe even before then, because you can always change things again later if you want something better.

Also, stop blaming. It only reminds you of poor choices that you made , allowing other people to manipulate you. Wake up, decide what you want, and make it happen.

Thanks a ton for the reply, NariusV. I think I am still a bit attached to a strange need to see how something is going to be possible before I believe it can really work out. Yeah I need to get over that thinking I realize if I am really going to succeed on this sort of path. I can see how I need to let my own personal power and intention make the way where logic and limits cannot.

Also about the blame thing, I think I get that too, the not just blaming others. This is about power and having the life we want to have whereas blame is just victim-ish and a helpless victim gets nowhere. At least i hope I’m on the right track in my thinking here. Correct me if I’m wrong.

This is how the average person thinks due to logical intervention. I know many that will not believe something is possible until they can work out a way of achieving it; and if they can’t work it out then they abandon the goal (how sad). The answer of cause is in the quote above……

You simply need to invert it and Voila!!

Believe it will be done without caring about how it will happen. This is the magical mind set.

Greetings Blazewind Bluebird;

In your situation these people are manipulating and taking advantage of your hospitality and good will. They are parasites and sucking the very life out of you in your sanctuary. things will only get worse if you take no action.

If I were in your case I would call upon the Kings to come to your aide to get rid of these people. Specifically I would use Beleth, Paimon and Belial to use their Legions and cause these people to leave.
They have their specializations and can be very influential. Beleth will work on their emotions and cause them to detest their current situation. They will be influenced to hate where they are and have a strong desire to leave. Paimon’s agents will cause all sorts of thoughts and unease that they Must leave and not bother you for their own good. Belial’s legions will sway their will and they will come to a collective decision that leaving is for their best interest.

Be aware that using them should be a final resort, as when you call upon the Kings, they will carry out their bidding and will cause these people to leave using whatever means necessary. You have to be strong and ruthless and realize that they have to be gone from your life. If they are in your house you will see them day to day falling apart and becoming depressed. They will begin to fight and complain and you will see their lives fall apart before your very eyes. If you can handle this and know that is them or you, the Kings will be successful in ridding them from your life. It will work I have no doubt.

Hope that helps.
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I’d just respond to your question - of “what is the target”

-That would determine an approach and be a way to develop your viewpoint of technique… etc… you say two people: so either A or B person, both of them as a group, also upon you-yourself (to have an indirect affect), or upon the geographic place… (ie the location itself… either as a “field” affect radiating… also a place has a “personality” that can be influenced… how it is integrated with the current situation… it want them out? - different view on what that means and how to contact “that” ~Mask as symbolic Agent)…
so that is 5 different targets… but I’d recommend this “6th” poss… the situation itself… (thus the pattern as it is affecting your circumstances)… how to interpret any of the above, would be the start of your working through it… (not as nice and ready-to-do as do XYZ… so if you didn’t want an exercise-path along with the Task-At-Hand… I like to mix the 2 at once). Then how you interpret and feel which to use… would imply different approaches to then influence/act magickally… to achieve your result…

also do you seek a “result” or just a ceasing of current… (more stop XYZ… or move things towards this Vision)… both have limitations… once have determined the target, how you interpret that, and what the affect (and of the two types)- that should specify more how you’d act (vs it being unclear and perhaps abstract… thus “how would I go about it”)… -to the seeking

My advice: jump in. Don’t hem and haw and worry how things will come to pass, just do it. I toyed with the idea of evocation for months and wasted so much damn time. I worried about working with scary demons, getting possessed, going to hell, losing my soul, etc. but finally decided I found this path for a reason. It’s a path I’m suppose to walk for however long. It’s one that makes sense to me right now despite the fact that it goes against all I was taught was “good”. I was scared but I did it anyway because my need/want was surprisingly greater than my fear. Any fear you experience will be forgotten once something you asked for comes to pass. Ask anyone and they’ll tell you the same thing - there’s nothing better than that feeling of knowing YOU changed the course of events to your benefit and that YOU made change happen.

As for the logistics, I’d focus on every single person you want gone from your life. If you want to be nice, get one to get a job out of state forcing them and the others to move. If you simply want them gone, work on creating turmoil and disruption between them. Tear 'em apart and then send them away. Then pick an entity that speaks to you (And one will. Trust) and get to work. Be very specific about your request and come up with a reasonable time frame for things to manifest. Let the spirit know what you want done and what you don’t want done (ie you don’t want them to die to get rid of them, etc.). As insurmountable or utterly hopeless a situation may seem to you, there’s almost always a way to achieve what you want.

Regarding the ethics of the situation, I agree with NariusV that only you can decide on what’s right and wrong for you personally, and what you do and don’t feel comfortable doing.

Just something to think about though: How would you feel if you had an opportunity to manipulate these people in an ‘everyday’, non-magickall way? For example, during a conversation subtly hinting that it would be ‘much better’ for them somewhere else, meanwhile, obviously knowing that you only want them gone for your own sake and don’t really give a fuck about how they feel. Would you still feel guilty, or that it is ‘dark’ and unethical? Thing is, manipulating someone through magickal means is really no different to manipulating someone non-magickally, and I agree that the latter happens constantly in our daily lives.
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A few people have suggested involving spirits, but maybe try a less extreme technique first though (if you are a beginner). Maybe something like Austin Osman Spare’s sigil technique. The statement of intent could be something along the lines of ‘So and So are desperately unhappy in my home and decide to leave.’ That takes care of both people in one go.

From your post is clear you do not know what you want to succeed!
You can’t just manipulate people when you can’t set your own mind…
If you want my advice write down a story, the outcome you want to create, be precise and detailed. When you feel this is it come back with the right questions.

Oh I completely agree with you about less extreme. I’m great with the thought of less extreme in this case. I am very new to the dark magic side of things, (I guess I realize after a few years of living, that love and light can only carry me so far. And I feel suddenly limited.) I have never even attempted to call on a spirit of any kind yet, and while I do wish to do so at some point, I hardly feel like this is the situation for a stumbling beginner to try and just hope I succeed. I want to practice this first. For me, asking for information from a spirit I have evoked seems the right starting point in that.

For this present situation a more simple manipulation ritual seems like the right thing to do. I’ve thought more about this, and the more I consider, the more it actually feels like a right thing and not a wrong thing. Like protect and power and not attack or anything like that. I have allowed myself to be manipulated, to be taken advantage of for too long and that fault is entirely mine I suppose, but I realize it rightly does not need to stay this way.

I know more now what I want to achieve and not let happen. I don’t plan in anyway to wish harm upon them and as I understand from reading the replies here there is little reason I have to. I am going to try for this soon.

Go with your gut, do whatever feels right for you.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

Ps. I can totally empathise as I have been in a similar situation, and hated every second of it!

Freezer spells can fo the job without harm if you want to drive them away from your life.

http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/curses-and-hexes/vovin’s-freeze-spell-~-from-evocationmagic-com/msg48178/#msg48178

You haven’t tried booting them out and locking the door, calling the police if they show up?

I mean it’s not your responsibility to look after anyone?

As long as their getting a free ride they won’t be stopping any time soon, and I think the only way their going to WANT to look after themselves is if they are forced to =/

I thought I should post an update on this subject. Oddly, I have still not yet actually taken the real action I plan on taking. The timing just hasn’t seemed to be quite right to act. I have noticed though something going on with the pair I wanted out of my home in the first place though I have not taken any real and strong action yet. They have expressed that they are growing more and more desperate to leave town. Their lives are starting to slowly look like they are failing faster out here. Worsening health issues, higher stress, a recent big screaming fight, increasing money troubles, and just an overall greater refusal in any way to commit themselves to a life here even for several more months. Still no clear means for them to leave, but I sense an obvious strong shift and have an odd sense that something still unseen is about to be set in motion.

Sometimes just clearly deciding what you want is enough.

Pardon my reviving a topic I started a couple months ago, but things have happened and I am a bit shaken up. Just tonight things went crazy again in my house. I thought it might work, I really did. I see a need to go into brutal detail, but I am seeing now tonight that the two ‘guests’ in question, that I mentioned in this topic, are emotionally and mentally unstable, as well as now increasingly abusive. I am physically at the point of almost shaking from the shock of tonight’s sudden unexpected emotional attack against me, when I have gone out of my way to help these people. I felt almost unsafe. My hand has been forced now for certain. This time I am sure. I am going to wait until late tonight, when they are sleeping and then attempt my manipulation of the situation. I have to try. I can’t afford to fail.

I’m letting the emotion of the moment push my will forward, letting it drive my intent. I see how I was coming at this from a helpless victim standpoint, but I feel different now. Not like the helpless person crying in the corner from people to stop control, stop abusing, but instead I feel truly like I am in control here and no one knows it yet, like my still uncovered godlike power is my weapon, my armor. I’m being pushed onward tonight, urged forward no longer doubting that I am doing the right thing. I now understand that my target is not one person, but one situation instead. I will manipulate that. Somehow in the middle of my shaky confused an shocked state of being, I see clearly what I am meant to attempt. Unfortunately I don’t have any black candles around. I had intended to buy a couple of them awhile ago to use in ritual, but was unable to find them anywhere in town. I’ve decided instead to use purple, which to me represents among other things, empowerment and freedom.

I understand of course that this is mostly just a personal life problem, but I wanted to post this on here anyway mostly just to keep track, document and get the energy of it out there into reality. This will be the first real ritual (however simple and basic of one a simple act of magical manipulation is) on the left hand path. I must admit and hope it doesn’t sound awful, I am almost happy and excited, imagining already what I will do and say when suddenly they decide to take action and move on. It all happened so fast and unexpectedly, this emotional attack on me and from two people at once, utterly unprovoked. It’s hard to explain to others who were of course not around to see for themselves, but it was just plain odd. Didn’t feel right or normal. All I know is I won’t do this nonsense anymore. Tonight is the night.

I hope it works! Sometimes we have to get pushed to the edge, before we find out what we really are capable of.

Well I did do the ritual last night. I wanted to work in the middle of the night, I so went to sleep for a couple hours after setting an alarm. One odd thing I noticed is that basically I was up half the night , waking up often and quite wide awake since. I just didn’t sleep well.

In any case the hard part now seems to be maintaining the detatchment from any outcome and worse not negating it all with doubts and the urgency for a needed result. Been trying some serious thought substitution all day so far while busy at work.

[quote=“Blazewind Bluebird, post:18, topic:4607”]

In any case the hard part now seems to be maintaining the detatchment from any outcome and worse not negating it all with doubts and the urgency for a needed result. Been trying some serious thought substitution all day so far while busy at work.[/quote]
Find me one person who can handle easily this part…We do magic when we’re in need of something, and that ‘‘need’’ is ruin the outcome.That’s why i’m doing multiple works for the same purpose…I’m expecting results from the last entity i called and i get them from the first or the second one.

Belief in your ability is key, when you know you’ll get what you want you don’t worry about it and fret over it, you do what needs doing and get the result you created. But yeah without being confident to the point of arrogance it’s hard to maintain that state 100% of the time, which is probably why our results are often not 100% and not exactly as we expect them to come.