How to detect imposter spirits and other time wasting things

Discerning Spirits
A Guide on How Not to Waste Your Time

There seems to be a lot of confusion on the subject of discerning spirits from thoughtforms and imposters. So I hope to shed some light on how this can be done. Unfortunately I had to learn this the hard way as I have had my time wasted with entities who knew nothing and could do nothing. This does not address thoughtforms that have been intentionally created for a purpose, but rather those things which either arise spontaneously through our own fantasies or dodgy egregoric spirits unintentionally created by some occult collectives.

One of the first characteristics of a real spirit is that they will often defy your expectations of them. I realize that some will say that spirits appear and behave in the manner expected of them. I thought this too at one time. Upon reflection, I say this is wrong and is actually one of the characteristics of a thoughtform or unconscious projection. Real spirits will take forms largely in harmony with their natures, but it may not be something that you expect. Their speech patterns and choice of words will likely differ markedly from anything you yourself might say.

In the instances where you can see a spirit, it will often be with a level of detail that you didn’t imagine. Thoughtforms and projections are usually somewhat hazy in appearance, having only as much detail as you are able to put into them.

Real spirits have a distinct sense of presence as If a person is in the room. Thoughtforms often just feel like part of the scenery. Interacting with a thoughtform feels like effort as you are not only speaking for yourself but also sock puppeting the thing which stands before you. That feeling of effort is subtle but it is there. The caveat here is that a well established thoughtform may also have a sense of presence but will not necessarily have a sense of personhood. Experience has to be your guide here.

Spirits do not violate their basic nature. This is true both in how they appear and how they behave. Even given that our minds translate the presence through our perceptual filters, the form and behavior will still be in harmony with its nature. In the poll that I posted, I gave the example of spirits always appearing as clowns. Unless there is something in a spirit’s energy that you associate with clownishness, they are not going to appear to you as a clown. Like ever. Thoughtforms and imposters are whatever you want them to be both in appearance and behavior. In cases where the form has been structured for them you might find that the spirit will complain if you have structured something inappropriate for them to inhabit which conflicts with their nature.

Spirits of real power are able to deliver powerful results. Thoughtforms only have as much power as are fed into them. Egregoric spirits demand much in the way of time and attention as it is how they are fed and sustained. But usually they take much more than they give. You give them a feast and they will deliver table scraps. Quite often they will simply have a track record of failure coupled with excuses.

A real spirit is also going to be able to deliver real verifiable gnosis that doesn’t originate from the mind of its summoner. Imposters do not have this capacity and can only pull things from your mind and parrot it back. Quite often the imposter will be very vague in their pronouncements with no real way to verify what they are saying. The alternate tactic of the imposter is what I call the “chosen one” syndrome wherein they pick up on your fantasies and feed them back to you, virtually guaranteeing endless time and attention from gullible sorcerors.

I have also found that when a spirit assumes a form, that form has a certain resilience to it. The same is true of astral landscapes that do not originate from the mind of the sorceror. An effort to make changes in the form is going to be met with considerable resistance. Fantasies and thoughtforms are considerably more malleable.

With these things in mind I have a few rules of thumb that I have developed when working with spirits. Especially when I am working with something new. These guidelines are especially important for those new to this. One is to restrict your inquiries to the mundane sphere of things. This enables you to see two things. One is that the spirit is able to get things done and the other is that any gnosis given can be verified. Beginners should avoid probing into more esoteric things that cannot be verified like godselves and past lives and such until the spirit has proven reliable.

Another guideline is to be suspicious of anything that heaps flattery on you or caters to your fantasies. Entities that do this have proven to me time and again that they know nothing and can do nothing. Don’t waste your time here.

Thirdly, purity of mind is important before beginning the work. I don’t mean saintliness here. What I mean is a clear intention rooted in getting something done and also a clear focus on the nature and essence of what that spirit is. This is what preparatory immersion is for and it is where the connection to the spirit really begins. Without it, you are liable to get anything standing in your temple. Garbage in = garbage out.

Structured forms should align with a spirit’s nature. Imagery is important. If you summon Belial and structure a cartoonish form, don’t be surprised if he refuses to inhabit this abomination or complains if he does. More likely something else is going to animate this form which will be more in harmony with it. This gets into why you began the summoning in the first place. If you structure a form that is frivolous, it is a clear sign that your intention is frivolous. Therefore don’t be surprised if something frivolous shows up. That goes back to purity of mind and preparatory immersion.

Lastly, dropping mind is important. Dropping mind means that the daydreaming mind is shut off, resulting in a lucid state. It shuts down your internally generated psychic noise. Unconsciously generating fantasies is going to be very unlikely in this state and so your ability to truly perceive the spirit and have more clear communication will sharpen because you won’t be injecting your own bullshit into the experience.

That’s about all I can think of for now. Hope this helps.


Quality post. :+1:

I won’t mention clownworld. NO.




Also THIS. :+1:

I just edited the OP of Unofficial Forum Tutorials Directory ~ Beginners, Check This Out! đź‘Ť to put this in, because a LOT of people are having these problems lately it seems.


I find if meeting the being in the astral you’re bound to get a imaginary form or “false form” from them and not their true form. However, it’s not impossible to see their true form outside of the astral. However that’s just my view of the astral that real entities don’t live with here only thoughtforms while real entities use it as a meeting grounds, collective unconscious/mental-esque plane.


Yeeeessss, I actually wanted to suggest this,thank you :smiley:


That’s interesting, because core shamanism teaches ways to almost always get the true form, and it’s kind of sideways to grimoire trad.

Maybe people’s astrals are not working without the axis mundi aspect?


I know. The purpose of the poll was to figure out where people were at so I would know if I should write this or not. :+1:


Interesting, is there a deity that comes to mind that specializes in this, massive deceptions, lies and caps on using your fantasies against you?


Any being really though I find trickster deities will do this to try and teach you.


Wonderful information thank you :+1:

But you really underestimate the power of the mind. Whatever you think you’re doing to manipulate it, it could still manipulate your perception to give you the impression that you succeeded :slight_smile:

What I personally do is simple. I use my mind to its full capacity, in full awareness. And ask the spirit to verify it’s presence with PHYSICAL action. Not mental or spiritual. Not in the “astral” … in the physical world. Because I deal with them as physical beings. Not only spiritual. “Make a sound, noise, let me hear you say your name, move an object…etc”

When that happens, I then ask them to verify their identity. That’s easy. Only a real God, Goddess or high-ranked Demon or ArchAngel, would be able to do something that corresponds with the power of such entity. A trickster or a thoughtform are too weak for such demonstration of power because they simply don’t have it. I ask them to do something instantly or in the next day or two, to verify their identity. Again, a physical action that I can easily examine. That’s it.

Playing with the mind is cool… but in my opinion, never underestimate the power of the mind and never try to trick it. It will always find a way to trick you and it will succeed eventually no matter what you do. Your sense of victory over it, only means it succeeded. Use it instead.

Still very good guide for astral work with spirits :v:


If you where to choose a deity from the Goetia who would you pick as the most deceptive? I would chose Berith, any experience with him?


Which is why I recommend that people focus on the mundane. Spot on.


I dont believe the Goetia are deities just demons, so I am unsure I don’t work with demons. I only ever worked with a few deities and other entities outside of demons/angels.


in my personal experiences so far: Zagan. I sensed that he can fuck your shit up pretty good, deception wise


Thanks for the answer i will definately check this out.


Been dealing with a nasty shapeshifter for so long. I relate so much!
But I’ve learnt not to be desperate. No matter how much I want to see a spirit, I don’t try to will them up. They come when they come and the energy is dinstinctive. The stuff I’ve drawn to me by trying to wish beings into presence all left rather bad tastes…


Although I did not understand many things I am impressed by your words and the way you speak and tell the truth

1 Like

Well I guess my phone company gonna be getting Alot of money from me for more internet…

Cause this is QUALITY CONTENT and is why I pay my phone bill :fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire:


Real Quick Tho:

How does this apply to Sigils of Entities?