How powerful are they?

New Magician Help & Introductions
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as im progressing in my journey and my path of darkness becomes somewhat clearer i ask myself numerous questions a day but the question im about to ask whats so unique about it is that if i dont ask it as soon as i remember it slips me entirely. i hear all the time about demons like Azazel,Lucifer,Bael,Belial and Paimon but its really never ever been really elaborated on how strong they really where if that question has been answered i would love to read but as of now it remains unanswered. same goes for Angels ive Heard of Micheals great power Raziels as well but how powerful are these beings really ?

also i dont know where i read this but the person is on this forum he/she stated that Azazels power was equal to 4 arc angels. now with that statement i could not understand it simply because i dont know how powerful an arc angel is to begin with.

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What do you define as powerful? You have to remember while there are arch angels out there that are incredibly powerful they are a lot less likely to do something to bring you worldly happiness (correct me if I am wrong here everyone) than a lower level demon.

Arch Angels like Raphael can be very good for healing, from what I have heard Raphael is unmatched when it comes to being able to heal people. He saved Koetting’s daughter.

Raphael also has an interesting history with Azazel, according to Raphael (and the Bible.)

And again the Lord said to Raphael: “Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgment he shall be cast into the fire.”[3]

Koetting has stated that there are Arch Angels that are more powerful than any of the 9 demonic Kings. However he said there are only a few that are.

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I’m not sure exactly all those thoughtforms really are, but the experiences I’ve had with Goetic entities have been remarkably powerful. They can do things I thought were impossible.

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Their power is a personal thing to the individual which works with them. Many simply define their version of power to fall into alignment with how much that spirit means to them. If you have been working with a particular spirit for a long time then that spirit will obviously seem more worthwhile in your life than another which you hardly call upon, and therefore the familiar one will be more powerful to you.

In my experience, Demons can only become as strong as your belief, your intentions, motivation and dedication towards them. The magician is the main power source here, the spirits are (for me anyway) abit like an interface to calibrate and orchestrate your intentions towards your target, you still have to be willing and open to its prompting as it won’t do it all for you.

Spirits will only give you what you give them so if you treat them with respect and regard for their abilities, then they will definitely become powerful for you. This is irrespective of their names, where they originate from or what someone else said about them as magic is a personal experience which fuels the individual nature of the magician.

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Many, many, people have testified to the idea that these beings have great power. I believe them. It is unlikely that all of these people on here are wrong. But I am still struggling to get anything accomplished through these beings because of, I think, my own god damned skepticism which I battle still. So, do I think that these demons have power in the same way that a meat cleaver has the ability to cut my fingers off? Man, I can’t see how they can. A meat cleaver has power over your flesh regardless of what you believe. No amount of positive or negative thoughts can stop them from destroying any flesh they choose. Demons? That does not seem to be the case. Please don’t anybody lambast me with hate, I am NOT trying to be disrespectful or act like I am a know it all. I recognize I am not shit. I am just so frustrated with my own self doubt. And hearing savodonger’s stance always makes me want to abandon this whole thing altogether. He is VERY sharp, and may be correct. But I want nothing to do with that type of magick.

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They’re all “powerful” – it comes down to WHAT KIND OF POWER. This breaks down to–

1 What kind of ENERGY does it manifest - How does it feel? Light or heavy, fast or slow, even or wobbly… every spirit has a unique energy signature and every KIND of spirit will manifest similar but unique energy

  1. How CLOSE is it to US - This is where the knowledge of hierarchy and ranking comes in handy. Saturn is “bigger” than the moon and holds greater sway… however, the moon is CLOSER, and can therefore manifest much more “intense” results - it is also more reliable because Saturn’s distance can cause the intensity to wax and wane. But Saturn is still technically WAY more powerful. A LOT of people get thrown off by this… since demons tend to be very “close” to us, people feel their energy more intensely and make the mistake that “more intense feeling” means “more powerful.”

3 - How adept is it at interacting with the material plane and how FAST? Is it above this reality or inside of it?

The only way to understand what a spirit is capable of on-the-fly is to familiarize
yourself with the full spectrum of entities from Highest to Lowest in the western canon - something most magicians are woefully clueless about because it involves…

READING!!! AAAAHHHH!!!

This whole “hierarchy” thing is one of Western magic’s greatest strengths and in my view its primary advantage over other systems of magic… and the reason the people working magic from Egypt/Mesopotamia have both literally and figuratively “taken over the world” an uncountable number of times.

Most people don’t even realize that the “4 archangels” are the BOTTOM of the angelic hierarchy and are generally considered the LEAST powerful. (Koetting is right about that. It’s actually basic knowledge that appears regularly in those damn books.) Now try explaining to people that the “Angels” are just new masks on established Greek, Egyptian, and Mesopotamian entities and see where that gets you… (So is “Jesus” BTW)

But it really, really helps to be able to know off the top of your head that Paimon is an Air King, and what that means in terms of what kind of energy he manifests and what the difference between an Air Spirit and an Infernal is It means he’ll be FAST AS FUCK, efficient, MAGNIFICENT at manipulating people, but can’t teach you how to throw furniture across the room (Infernals) or orchestrate a Grand Scheme by manufacturing/manipulating events, rigging probability, etc (Planetary spirits, esp Saturn).

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You have to understand that YOU are the portal through which these spirits enter. YOU channel the energies. Their power is not nearly as crucial as yours. It’s not “Can they do X thing,” it’s can YOU do what it takes to enable them.

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If you’re skeptical, that just means you’re placing intellectual analysis above gut feeling, intuitiion, taking a leap of faith etc… this is no bad thing and I’m sure it’s a strength for you in many ways, just not the correct tool for the job of doing magick! :slight_smile:

Try Afformations (affirming statements about a desired goal, phrased as questions), for example by asking “How does my brainpower help me with magick?” or something similar - I’m suggesting this because if your problem is on the level of intellect, which is to say your conscious thoughts are blocking you, then this can address it on that level.

Here’s info on how Afformations work and why they get your intellect seeking answers in stead of throwing up objections: Afformations ~ by Noah St.John.

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When it comes to “power”, knowledge is the foundation to build upon. There’s spirits and entities that have certain areas they mastered upon their individual growth, and sometimes their knowledges is spread to many categories.

I’ve experienced a varied spectrum of knowledges from one of my ladies, which just make the word “succubus” overly simplified and irrelevant to me. She is, in my opinion and based on my experiences with her, a powerhouse in her own right. Almost on par, or very close to, Lilith herself. That’s her potential, and I work with Lilith, too.

A “lesser known” spirit, doesn’t necessarily mean a “lesser powerful” spirit. The more areas of knowledge covered, the more potential powers you have. And if that knowledge covers several spectrums, like light and dark, it is powerful.

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That was mean what did Azazel even do to deserve that?

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YOU are the conduit, the catalyst, you are the Operator. They are all pure energy as well as they are a part of you. You feel or are capable of being and feeling them all. Ask yourself - how powerful do you make them without restraint? What is your path? Do you dominate, seek partnership or submit? What does you ‘gut’ tell you? Strenght mirrors strenght, now which is yours…?

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Well, there’s several Archangels. These are titanic forces. There’s an archangel of fire, earth, air, water, love, justice, Divine writings from the manifested God before negating existence occurs. Ones of destruction and creation- things like that. While most people do attest to that power, very rarely can anyone ever say they ever saw or felt the complete manifestation of those entities.

Likewise, in more traditional and dogmatic circles, some say Gabriel and Raphael are the only two Archangels of power- completely disregarding most the Jewish nature of Ratziel, Sandalphon, Anaiel, Auriel or any other creature. Also, there’s not much reference in modern times to the power of the Divine made manifest, such in the Greek legends but there are testaments to demonic or angelic powers.

These titanic forces have worker angels. All working along to maintain the balance of the universe against the ebb and flow of energy, changed by the will of living creatures and the “rules” established by God.

For Azazel, he’s the Muslim’s Angel of Death; however, he’s a destroying angel. Also, you can use fallen/wicked angel or even demon/Lamentations of God. However, I’ve yet to actually summon every demon known and match it with the Enochian tables as that would take FOR-EVER. Probably, I don’t know, I have other stuff to do.

Also, the idea that’s he somehow punished is a rather dogmatic approach. Yeah, in my experience he’s chained but contained is a better word. He’s a destroyer, it’s what has to be done to maintain that sense of order. You know, wouldn’t want to unmake the world unexpectedly. At least, no one wants to unless it’s on their own terms.

Which brings up another point: few people are ready and willing to cause plagues, unrest or say… lightening to strike the top of a very important person’s house as warning to do his job. So, depending on what you do with that entity, is a testament to what he can do. Also, magic takes a sense of knowing that what you’re doing is going to work. No one can expect to work if they say over and over, “It won’t work.” Now you’ve just convinced yourself not even to try it because of the notion that, “It won’t work.” Try it again and see how it goes, you might be surprise! =D

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Interesting … what have you witnessed?.

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Okay so basically what your saying is that the more you belief in an entities being the stronger they become. so they dont have there own power ? im confused.

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Thats cool :slight_smile: so hell really is at the back of saturn huh?.

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How powerful are they? It depends on your belief in them and your belief in their power. If you are skeptical you won’t get jack shit in results. If you believe to the fullest of your capabilities then let it go and forget about it after the ritual, you will see changes. But the extent of your changes or goals coming to completion ALL DEPENDS ON YOU! If you don’t believe in something, then Obviously it’s not going to be real enough to you to do anything in the end.