I wonder how people on this forum interpret the existence of the demons, angels and whatnot we communicate with. I myself tend to think that demons and angels are collectives of certain energies, rather then “living” entities with a personality and a constant presence; and that communication with these energies is more subjective to one’s own psychology than the general consensus here seems to be.
The first and formost reason I say this is because I find peoples experiences with entities too subjective. Whether it be scrying, divination, or even dreaming one’s own personality seems to be the bigger factor at play. Recently I’ve looked through journals of notes I made during scrying a few years ago, and looking back it seems to be more reflective of my mindset at the time than I thought then.
I believe that like candles, robes, daggers etc. the personality and apearance we have given entities are in and of themselves meaningless; that they serve to immerse the magician and focus some collective power in the universe toward an intended goal.
Not to say these entities (whether they are conscious beings or just flows of energy) are not to be respected, they do (in my opinion) because the positive intention inherent in respect or even humility is what might make the difference. And even if these beings are conscious and present it never hurts to be respectfull, just as you would with people you’re requesting help from.
This may be due to my strickt atheïst childhood which I have trouble letting go off. I love to be proven wrong though
Of course it is subjective. Every experience is, not just the spiritual ones. Every event and person you encounter is viewed through your own lens of belief, prejudice, bias and expectation and is thus coloured by it. It is basic psychology 101. It’s one of the reasons that 3 people can view the same car accident and yet give 3 completely different versions of what happened.
When happy and optimistic people are said to be wearing “rose coloured glasses” it is exactly that. They are viewing everything they experience through their lens of optimism, even the negative situations. People who have depression view everything through a grey lens that drains the colour from everything. That is the way the human mind works.
Spirits and entities are the same way. If you expect demons to want to trick you and destroy you, then that is what you will get when you summon them. If you don’t have that particular expectation, then demons tend to be pretty easy going. If you have a hate on for the Judeo-Christian religion, like a lot of people on this forum do, then that will colour your interactions with angels and other beings you interpret as part of that current, even though those beings are far older than any religion. Everything is interpreted through your own individual perception. That is why some spirits have such vastly different forms, depending on what book you are reading, though there is usually a few commonalities that tend to be from the collective unconscious of the human race.
This is particularly true for prophecy and divination because anything you receive tends to cater to your own particular biases and be filtered through your own strongly held beliefs. That is why I laugh whenever someone on the forum who is a supporter of the Cheeto in Chief proclaims him to be some kind of savior just because some spirit or another said so. I, not being a member of the Cult of the Cheeto, have received prophecy from spirits stating the exact opposite, and have done divination to the same effect, so I try to take everything with a very heavy dose of salt, as they say, because no human is free from biases. It is almost impossible to live in the world without developing them.
In my opinion, such entities are emanations of a current. Putting aside the fact that human psychology across human cultures tend to assign entities to common ideas, such as love gods, I think that similar entities come from the same current of energy.
However, I don’t think that discounts them from being “living” entities. For each known entity, there is a name and certain specific traits associated with it. That specific emanation of the current can still be doing things when you personally are not communicating with it. Others could call on it, no? If it responds to that person, then it is autonomous from you–and I think for me that qualifies as living entities. Even human personalities change all the time, so I think an energy current allows for a lot more variation.
It’s true that everything is seen through the practitioner’s lens only, and this can distort things a lot. I also came from an atheistic viewpoint, but that began to change because the entities I worked with gave me distinct ideas and opinions that I had not considered before. This isn’t to say that they’re definitely living or not, because someone can probably explain it away by psychology or tapping into the collective unconsciousness and so on. I’m undecided myself.
Well in basic terms entities which are encountered are to be classified as either being self or nonself. Sometimes it’s hard to distinguish whether or not an entity is self or nonself. Just know that if it’s speaking a language that you speak on the earth everyday like english or something, it’s probably a self entity.
I never broached the objective existence of entities in my above post because, to me, it doesn’t really matter if they exist independently of myself or not. When you do certain things, certain results follow.
The subjectivity of every experience means there is really nothing that is “outside” of your perception because you have to perceive something in order to experience it, and this is one of the reasons why it is very difficult to influence a true skeptic. Their perception of “reality” just doesn’t allow for it.
When supernatural phenomenon intrudes into the experience of someone who truly doesn’t believe in its existence, it can either lead to an expansion of awareness or complete insanity. It is very traumatic when your cherished beliefs about “reality” are shattered, and the human mind will do whatever it can to protect itself, even to the point of denying what is right in front of itself.
In fact, complete and utter denial of the supernatural can be used as a protective measure against curses and malevolent entities because most people find it hard to be afraid of something that doesn’t exist. Unfortunately, denial of the senses is extremely difficult to achieve (but it can be very helpful and is one of the major ways of inducing spontaneous healing in yourself. When your senses are bringing you pain, if you can deny its reality, or convince yourself that it is caused by your body healing rather than whatever is wrong, you can literally fix the problem overnight. I have read an account of a woman who healed her daughter’s heart defect by denying its existence, as well as that of a man who cured terminal cancer by convincing himself that the pain and weakness was a sign of healing rather than approaching death).
However, I act like spirits exist outside of myself simply because it is easier that way. Humans have always personified various forces because it makes far more sense to talk with another “person” than some vague, inanimate “force.”
