Why are the Text for new Topics disappearing?
I have spend some time writig a post that is v ery important for my advancement, and I needed help. But as i was just at the end, the text disappeared and i was sent back to the Forum Main page.
Now I have lost the will to even start again.
I am not a satanist, Christian or Jew. I know what these latter two say about the creation of man; and I have just learnt what the Satanists say.
But these are humans; now I want to know the truth from Satan’s own lips.
Can those of you who see Satan regularly consult him for me and tell him that a would-be-neutral woman on the path of ascent and learning, wants to evoke him and converse and learn from him without worshipping him?
I believe we should meet Angels and Demons as equals and students. Respecting them and acknowledging their erudition.
I was brainwashed from childhood into believing what was said about the Judeo-Christian God. Now I want to hear and learn from the opposite side; but I refuse to be brainwashed again.
I read somewhere that Satan only answers the calls of those who are willing to worship him, and is vicious and unforgiving to anyone who is not on his side and dares to call him. Cay you all get him to agree to meet me on neutral ground? All I want to do is learn and ascent.
I have been evoking Demons since I decided to learn from them, but they all seem to stand aloof and distrust me. Please help me!
This raises more questions for me, so in pursuit of clarity I’m going to chuck them out, no need to answer if you don’t want to obviously:
- asking people on this site to pass notes telling Satan you want to talk, like in school, MAY not work - it’s possible someone will take this on out of kindness but you’re handing your power and what could be the most important opening stage of a new phase over to complete strangers on the internet.
Be wary, and also why not make a plan to make that contact yourself?
Or to limit yourself to spirits who you can contact, at least.
- why do you want contact with Satan since you have a nagging concern he may be “vicious and unforgiving to anyone who is not on his side and dares to call him”?
There are a myriad of spirits out there, both the ones labelled demonic, but who are known to be kind or at least approachable, and then there are angels, and then there’s a far larger global majority of spirits and gods who’ve escaped dualistic classifications, such as (to name just a few) Hathor, Dhjuty (Thoth), Thor, Freyja, Diana, Isis (Aset), Lakshmi, Ganesha… and then there are the gods and spirits of the Americas, or islands, or Australia.
I think most people who are new to magick and unsure about the trustworthiness or otherwise of “demons” or angels, and figures like Lucifer and Satan would do far better to contact one of these older gods and build a working relationship with them first.
I would suggest you start either with a god your ancestors were acquainted with, or one who really appeals to you from what you’ve read about them.
And also, your own ancestors - where are they in your plans? They’re the most likely, if you approach them the right way, to look out for you.
I understand the desire to aim high and engage with spirits that can seem frightening, but the fact is most of us on here who do this have at least some experience already, reliable divinatory methods we can send out as advance scouts to verify if a spirit will help us, and at least some basic spirit communication skills - doesn’t have to be Dolby-esque clairaudience or seeing spirits poof into manifestation just like the postman appearing on your doorstep but it is helpful if you have some form of contact in place before working in areas that you know might carry a risk.
One purpose of having contact already in place and spirits you trust is that you can ask them what they think if you decide to work with a new entity, or paradigm, or whatever - if part of the relationship you have with them includes your own ascent/growth, then they’re going to be able to advise you better than anything whether something’s right for you.
So that’s what your post raises for me, anyway - few questions and some opinionating, obviously I’m no SuperWizard myself and my life’s not perfect, but I think you’re aiming for first-contact with possibly the wrong entity (at least at this stage, because of the things that worry you about Satan) and possibly by the wrong means of asking other people to step in.
Part of the empowering aspect of magick is the person you must become to do it satisfactorily, and that requires self-respect, self-reliance, and a degree of willingess to do hard work - emotionally/mentally hard at times, more than physically so.
JMO and I hope you find a way - I already PM’d you about the post disappearing issue, not sure what that is but you could try typing long detailed posts in another program first and pasting them in, then you have a copy saved no matter what, plus you can run spelling and grammar checks if you use a program like Word. 
At the very least, copy the text onto your clipboard before hitting “Preview” or “post” - saves a lot of frustration!
I will write it briefly because I g2g:
The so called “God” in the Judeochristian current is a tool used to manipulate you into submission by banning all which is natural and not giving any clear moral direction. Keep in mind that for centuries it was forbidden to have a translated version of the Bible to avoid criticism.
The real God here is a divine force so vast that it cannot be fully named nor understood but could be simplified with the sum of all existence. It is an imprsonal force who does not care about you specifically, and it is found resonating in the concepts of order.
The Demonic forces are expressions of concepts that are tied in the human mind regarding power and determination.
The Angelic forces are concerced with cosmic order rather than altruism. The Sun sets because they work around it, apparently.
The true Hollywood like “demons” are merely angry and hostile spirits but not because there is an established hierarchy. They just do things. They are out for your blood as much as a drunken hooligan is out for the other team’s fanatics.
They don’t lie in wait expecting to punish you because you did not attend Mass or had unprotected sex prior to marriage.
Satan punishes those who approach with fear. He is a stern teacher, not a hostile one. It would be like you enrolling in some school and showing up without a pen and notebook, or more likely, completely naked and expecting to be taken seriously.
Demons empower individuals because they are expressions of this power. What individuals do with it it is not their concern. There is no “Satan made me do it”, there is a “I behaved like an asshole because I now can”.
Magick is not tied to Satan exclusively. It would be like saying that only pure and devout christians are allowed to breath or walk rapidly. It is a skill ingrained in your being.
Problem is major religions brainwash you to believe that without their brand of dogma you are utterly lost, to ensure tithes, you know.
Satan represents this. Represents breaking away from the norm. Morals are up to you, not him. Satanism is not about orgies, ritual sacrifice, murder and general criminal behavior, it is just that most people use anything spooky-looking to justify such behaviors and, of course, feel empowered.
Angels won’t hate you if you work with demons.
Demon comes from the Greek word “daimon”, which merely means “spirit”.
You ARE a spirit, just embodied.
Before you can enter the world of pacts and spirit communication it is best advised that you do so with confidence and without dread and prejudice.
So you’re better off dealing first with Angels for now, or as LadyEva said, the gods of your ancestors.
That’s about it for now. Wish you the best with your chosen path.
Remember: You think you’re bad or wrong because deep down you fear leaving behind your faith. Fear not, explore.
I’ll enlighten you and all a little here, bit by bit:
- asking people on this site to pass notes telling Satan you want to talk, like in school, MAY not work - it’s possible someone will take this on out of kindness but you’re handing your power and what could be the most important opening stage of a new phase over to complete strangers on the internet.
Reply:
Thank you, you have answered and advised me better than you think in just No1
Yes, it it definitely is a new stage of a brand new phase for me, and I had no idea that i were handing over power to people by asking for help.
As I said, the first post was quite long and very explicit, and explained better why i did want to call and converse with Satan 5I still intend to do so down the road, before I die).
Be wary, and also why not make a plan to make that contact yourself?
Reply:
I can make the contact myself and prefer do so whenever possible. I prefer it that way. The idea of asking if someone could do the first approach for me, was what i learnt, from a Satanist website, and they were the one who actually put that fear in me.
- why do you want contact with Satan since you have a nagging concern he may be “vicious and unforgiving to anyone who is not on his side and dares to call him”?
Reply:
You won’t believe this but until some seven days ago, I had always thought all the senior ones as well as the lesser ones were alright and easily approacheable; It is that same website that informed me that they’d be vicious and unforgiving for those who contacted them, without having made the definite choice of being on their side. The words were coming from an expert satanist High priest, so who was I to ignore his warning and go barging where ‘angels would fear to tread’?
So I do not have a nagging feeling about their viciousness. It is a shame you had not read the first message that got lost, or you’d have a better idea of why I want to to call Satan.
As I said, I grew up being fed ther usual stories about the creation of Humanity. The judeo Christian side claiming the act of creation as being from their god.
These last few days, I have trawled satanist sites, and I read exactly the same story, but in reverse. Satan and his side are the creators while the god i was taught about is the enemy of man and the usurper. Everything that was attributed to the Demons is attributed to the angels by the Satanists.
There are so many insults exhanged, and so much hatred expressed between tghese two sides. And I find Humanity being pig-in-the-middle in all this, and especially myself, in particular.
That left me asking myself: where is the truth and where is the lie? Who is telling the truth and who is lying? That is why I wanted to evoke Satan. I have heard the Desist side, now i want to hear the Adversarialist side; from Satan himself.
There are a myriad of spirits out there, both the ones labelled demonic, but who are known to be kind or at least approachable, and then there are angels, and then there’s a far larger global majority of spirits and gods who’ve escaped dualistic classifications, such as (to name just a few) Hathor, Dhjuty (Thoth), Thor, Freyja, Diana, Isis (Aset), Lakshmi, Ganesha… and then there are the gods and spirits of the Americas, or islands, or Australia.
Reply:
This is a very welcome information. I am not new to evocations, you see? it is just the side I am turning to that I am unfamiliar with.That is why I needed the help of those more experienced and used to them than myself.
I think most people who are new to magick and unsure about the trustworthiness or otherwise of “demons” or angels, and figures like Lucifer and Satan would do far better to contact one of these older gods and build a working relationship with them first.
I would suggest you start either with a god your ancestors were acquainted with, or one who really appeals to you from what you’ve read about
I understand the desire to aim high and engage with spirits that can seem frightening.
Reply:
I am not really new to magic, as I have already performed the Abramelin ritual, which is the ritual par excellence of those of the Right-Hand Path who are deeply involved in ceremonial magic.
So you see, it is the fact that my intelligence does not allow me to continue accepting tenets of a creed that I find flawed. It is a great change that i am actually undergoing. And just like those same rebel angels i was taught to fear and distruts, I am unwilling to worship nothing and no one anymore apart from the God I feel within me.
I did believe that Satan and the major players would be willing to seize the occasion and tell me their side of the story, without asking me to worship them, since they themselves are reputed never to bow to any one. Only that High Priest’s purposes warned me off calling them.
It is that same change, I believe that has made the Spirits stand aloof. I know I will never go back believing all what was taught me about Jesus and his relationship to God, since I have been doubting the whole thing since I could think logically anyway. That, and a lot more things.
but I think you’re aiming for first-contact with possibly the wrong entity (at least at this stage, because of the things that worry you about Satan) and possibly by the wrong means of asking other people to step in.
Part of the empowering aspect of magick is the person you must become to do it satisfactorily, and that requires self-respect, self-reliance, and a degree of willingess to do hard work - emotionally/mentally hard at times, more than physically so.
Reply:
Well, now that I am reassured that i can work with those demons i have chosen to work with, i’ll begin doing so straight away. I was not going to make it a habit of asking people to do the work for me. I prefer doing it myself. it was just on the subject of contacting the Spirits and demons in this new way that I was unsure about. But time will come, when I’ll have that conversation with Satan. Because even in my world now, I am a Leader, never a follower.
I did not know I was handing power to others by asking themfor help; since for a long time, I have been a Deist and working on the Right Hand-side. I just did not want Satan getting angry at me calling him and killing me, without hearing me out.
Thank you so much, Lady Eva you have helped me a lot. I’d also like the opinion of any other person that wishes to express theirs.
l write it briefly because I g2g:
The so called “God” in the Judeochristian current is a tool used to manipulate you into submission by banning all which is natural and not giving any clear moral direction. Keep in mind that for centuries it was forbidden to have a translated version of the Bible to avoid criticism.
The real God here is a divine force so vast that it cannot be fully named nor understood but could be simplified with the sum of all existence. It is an imprsonal force who does not care about you specifically, and it is found resonating in the concepts of order.
The Demonic forces are expressions of concepts that are tied in the human mind regarding power and determination.
The Angelic forces are concerced with cosmic order rather than altruism. The Sun sets because they work around it, apparently.
The true Hollywood like “demons” are merely angry and hostile spirits but not because there is an established hierarchy. They just do things. They are out for your blood as much as a drunken hooligan is out for the other team’s fanatics.
They don’t lie in wait expecting to punish you because you did not attend Mass or had unprotected sex prior to marriage.
Satan punishes those who approach with fear. He is a stern teacher, not a hostile one. It would be like you enrolling in some school and showing up without a pen and notebook, or more likely, completely naked and expecting to be taken seriously.
Demons empower individuals because they are expressions of this power. What individuals do with it it is not their concern. There is no “Satan made me do it”, there is a “I behaved like an asshole because I now can”.
Magick is not tied to Satan exclusively. It would be like saying that only pure and devout christians are allowed to breath or walk rapidly. It is a skill ingrained in your being.
Problem is major religions brainwash you to believe that without their brand of dogma you are utterly lost, to ensure tithes, you know.
Satan represents this. Represents breaking away from the norm. Morals are up to you, not him. Satanism is not about orgies, ritual sacrifice, murder and general criminal behavior, it is just that most people use anything spooky-looking to justify such behaviors and, of course, feel empowered.
Angels won’t hate you if you work with demons.
Demon comes from the Greek word “daimon”, which merely means “spirit”.
You ARE a spirit, just embodied.
Before you can enter the world of pacts and spirit communication it is best advised that you do so with confidence and without dread and prejudice.
So you’re better off dealing first with Angels for now, or as LadyEva said, the gods of your ancestors.
That’s about it for now. Wish you the best with your chosen path.
Remember: You think you’re bad or wrong because deep down you fear leaving behind your faith. Fear not, explore.
Thank you very much 333. As I said, I lost the first post i wrote, that was much more xplicit than the short one I put after: A lot, or most of what you said here, I already agree with.
I certainly have already left the part of my faith i disagreed with behind. In fact, I do have my very own faith now. so i have already left behind the original one.
I already work with Angels but not in the way i intend to work with them in the future; The same thing. Long before I began speaking out about my doubts, I was already being called a witch by the members of my own family. For a long time now my son tells me i am possessed by a demon, since i amnot like all the others in pur family, and i have books on Demons and Magic. And he called me evil last november when i saw i had ordered E.A.'s Evocation Course.
My situation is simply different and not as straightforward as many would imagine it to be, that’s all. I’d welcome still more input!
[quote=“Milla, post:1, topic:4789”]Why are the Text for new Topics disappearing?
I have spend some time writig a post that is v ery important for my advancement, and I needed help. But as i was just at the end, the text disappeared and i was sent back to the Forum Main page.[/quote]
Same thing happened to me a few times. What I do now is type long or important text into a text editor, then copy it over to a post when complete.
[quote=“Milla, post:4, topic:4789”]Thank you, you have answered and advised me better than you think in just No1
Yes, it it definitely is a new stage of a brand new phase for me, and I had no idea that i were handing over power to people by asking for help.[/quote]
Well that’s just my view, there are many magicians for hire who help people who are at the beginner phases, many people do readings and so on, and they’re usually a good thing when that’s used the right way, but you don’t NEED someone to be intermediary.
I think what I disagreed with there was the possibility that a spirit isn’t aware you want to contact them - if they’re powerful enough to come to your aid as a teacher or whatever else, they would probably know already, though that doesn’t mean you can necessarily be aware of them in return.
The words were coming from an expert satanist High priest, so who was I to ignore his warning and go barging where 'angels would fear to tread'?
That’s a complicated topic, and I don’t know the site you’re talking about, but it seems possible to me that as a priest he would want to frighten people off from direct contact with Satan, or else, what’s his role?
The same was true throughout much of the Christian era, when priests told the people what to believe and how to act, look at the outrage when the Bible was first published in English, not Latin, and then later when printing presses made it possible for lay people to own a copy.
These last few days, I have trawled satanist sites, and I read exactly the same story, but in reverse. Satan and his side are the creators while the god i was taught about is the enemy of man and the usurper. Everything that was attributed to the Demons is attributed to the angels by the Satanists. There are so many insults exhanged, and so much hatred expressed between tghese two sides. And I find Humanity being pig-in-the-middle in all this, and especially myself, in particular. That left me asking myself: where is the truth and where is the lie? Who is telling the truth and who is lying? That is why I wanted to evoke Satan. I have heard the Desist side, now i want to hear the Adversarialist side; from Satan himself.
There’s more to concepts of Deity (whether from conventional RHP viewpoints, or from a more magickal view of working WITH the gods) than just the JC/Satanist axis, that’s actually a small minority view based on one single middle-eastern group and the cult that subsequently spread from there, via the teachings of a few men.
Where are the Aztec gods in this, where are the Greeks, where are the Egyptians? 
I posted a bit more about that here - it’s my view that putting this single middle eastern religion into a global context will help. There’s certainly more going on than just the JC god and its “adversary” - especially if the priests of both groups often sound the same cry to submission and to placing conditionality on your own power.
Screw that! 
And just like those same rebel angels i was taught to fear and distruts, I am unwilling to worship nothing and no one anymore apart from the God I feel within me.
Can I make a recommendation to learn about Belial (including doing a search on here) and maybe consider contacting him (if he’s not already on your list)?
The reason is, he generally advises against putting yourself into any kind of worshipful or abject position, I think he’d love the new direction you’re taking and be a willing participant and ally in helping you break free.
Thank you very much. Belial is most definitely on my list. Nothing’s going to stop me now.
They may call me what they like, this is my life and I have made a choice.