Gods, demons, and morality


You get out what you put in, however it’s very subjective to black magicians and I totally understand that. One to even practice should be better off carrying the means to question if it worth the toll it can take which also can be your health.

This is just my opinion though. If you’d like to really dish it out to others relentlessly then there has to be an eventual ‘toll fee’ to be paid. There’s a balance to everything, if magick is overdone you become unwell, and evidently look ill in the eyes of others.


Toll fee as in karma? I really don’t believe in karma. I think if a person feels guilty about something they have done then it can cause them misfortune. Or if you believe in karma then it can affect you, kinda like how i believe that curses/hexes can only work on someone if they believe it will affect them. Just my opinion though.


My exact words:

Which means:
I’m very tired in real life and can’t concentrate to give you an answer in depth, yet I decide to contribute in any way currently possible.
Sorry for not explaining in great detail my condition to an unknown guy and said only that I’m a bit lazy!

If those quotes are my words, I never said that. Or implied it.
If its your thoughts, then it’s not my fault you’re prejudiced.

In what way? Because I said “I sense it’s yes you want to hear :smiley:” and proceeded analyzing my pov on my opinion on your question despise my earlier statement?
If you have any problem with my posts feel free to flag them for moderation.


Thats just the vibe and energy i get from you, i am not going to be one thats going to just take it, too bad. Being sarcastic and belligerent is not reportable sadly. Anyways, i thought you said you were “not gonna deal with this”, yet you’re still here trying me, just shows your maturity.:thinking:


Anyways, i am done with you. Sorry you have to take your real life problems and in turn have bad attitude with people on here. Good luck to you👍🏻


Mhm have a nice day or night :slight_smile:


The same is true of people, I just banned someone who ftrst, moralised all over a good topic and completely derailed it, then rejoined with fake claims about this forum’s rules, then rejoined again to try and put their acts in context while also trolling.

That person has 100% created their own experience with this forum and the members on it via their own cognitive biases, or to put it another way, your attitude defines your results.

Compare Imperials Arts results in which Goetia spirits take sinister forms to those of us who treat them like they’re “just some dude.”

Hermdemon’s experiences are not more true just because of their personal internal mental framework.

Also, consider the following - is a person who eats animals (or who is righteously vegan. but popping anti-depressants or other meds derived from the intentional, prolonged, and targeted physical and emotional torture of animals in medical research, vivisection and ongoing drug testing), and yet who also has pets they love and devote time to, just “aspects of themselves” or “imaginary subconscious” because their actions SEEM inconsistant?

Or is it possible that complex beings like these entities have many different and seemingly competing drives and agendas, that enable them to do things that, to us, appear to be paradoxical?

If you have power over another group of beings and their environment and wellbeing, won’t your actions ALWAYS seem inconsistant to those viewing you from another level?


^ As I was typing this, again, in the posts directly before it, preconceptions led to reactions led to affirming the original belief. :man_shrugging:


There’s no good or evil. That’s a human concept, which is also relative and depends on every human point of view. So don’t expect demons to adhere to such measures of human morality. They are way above that.


True. They just don’t care. I feel like if they don’t like someone, then they can do really awful things to that individual, or it they like them, they can really aid the witch. I have heard of people evoking a demon and it not liking them automatically. I also think the nature of the universe is “evil” it will do whatever it needs to survive, thats just nature i guess.


The “shamanic” approach has some disadvantages, but one of the advantages is you are not primed to automatically expect Christian-morality style interactions from spirits, being “all good” or “totally evil.”

You do a little research, for sure, ask other spirits you already trust if they have any advice, but then on first contact you take each new being as you find them, and allow them to define their own appearance and personality.

I am going to drop in this excellent quote from Aaron Leitch:

The spirit world is much more akin to the animal kingdom—just one big chaotic mass of creatures living in an ecosystem. Some of them are big, some of them are smaller, some of them are friendly, and some of them are jerks.

When we try to polarise spirits and stereotype them, we lose their complexity and, I believe, diminish our spiritual experience and our access to POWER by so doing. :thinking:

Is it evil to survive, and to flourish though? Is self-sacrifice up to sacrificing one’s life the only “good” or moral or noble approach…?

I think that’s a kind of gnosticism to view the material world and its needs as innately evil, but someone else can probably give more info on that. :+1:


I guess my definition of evil isn’t the same as most people, so yes i believe it is. Evil spelled backwards is live for a reason. I believe a person can be “evil” and still do good things.


I do believe gnosticism has a lot of truth actually. But i don’t think it is one demiurge, i think there are multiple gods that want to keep humanity relying on them. I have experienced an archon attacking me more than once because they know i am a threat. I don’t know if all of the physical universe is a trap but i do think this solar system is controlled by these “archons”.


The nature of the multiverse is amoral, meaning it is neither good nor evil. It just is, and simply reflects back to one what is projected.

I see spirits as both projections of my own subconscious and as their own individual consciousness, in the same way that I recognise other people as existing in my universe but also as beings separate from myself.

As such, spirits have just as much nuance to their character and personality as humans do, but they will also cater to the biases held by the magician, simply because of the fact that nothing can truly be said to be separate from our own perception of it. A racist will find spirits of all kinds sharing their views, and the same with a liberal, a Christian, or a homophobe. In all cases, the spirits are simply reflecting back what is projected by the consciousness perceiving them, in my opinion.

Belial is anti authoritarian, but he will work for a fascist just as he will for a socialist. He has his own agenda just as the magicians that call upon him do, but, because every magician is a shard of the Eternal Source and god of their own universe, spirits are obliged to work for them according to the laws of this universe. It doesn’t mean he likes it or even agrees with it though.

Think of it like this: If I have certain political leanings, but my boss is at the opposite end of the spectrum, if I like the job and company I work for, then my boss’ political leanings don’t really concern me as they do not impact the job I was hired to do.

I have no doubt there are truly evil beings in this multiverse, whose only purpose is the obliteration of existence, but they too, are simply projections of the Eternal Source, as is everything else.


It’s a coincidence of language. What connection doos straw and warts have? Or time and emit? Rats and star? Knits and stink? Regal and lager? God and dog?


Like i said it is subjective. Depends on your definition of evil.


To me live and evil can be compared, not simple because of “evil spelled backwards is live” being evil in this world is normally considered to be selfish and striving to survive, so that is why i sometimes consider myself to be evil, not that i really believe in it, but if it did exist then evil at its truest form to me is destruction of yourself and everything, anti-life. Good at its truest is growth and loving yourself and nature.


I like to think of it like this. You summon these spirits to perform a task for you which means you are effectively hiring them and paying them in energy and attention, offerings, etc and entering into a formal or informal contract with them. In this case they are the ultimate capitalists setting aside their own morals or opinions beyond how they relate to the job they are hired to perform. They are old enough to be beyond the ego driven aspects that would make them want to argue a point so long as they are well paid. Most of these beings are also personifications of energy and emotion and concept in the form of spirits that have attained or tapped into a mantle of power so when called they will conform to the corresponding area of the conjurer’s psyche unless there is an overriding reason to do otherwise.


I wholeheartedly agree with this. Perception is the reality and experience we make. When we dull our perception, rather than exploring the edges of perception, we dull the experience.

The same applies to us, conversely. The more we label ourselves and put ourselves in corners and boxes, the more limited we are. AIN SOPH AUR. Limitless light not limited light.


Let me play devil’s advocate for a while:

What if we came up with a ritual to make us immune to the effects of cosmic balance? So we can do as many “evil” things as we want and not have it come back to bite us in the arse?

Or maybe another way to look at it is like a huge cosmic video game. For example if you play sim city and you get the urge to just summon an earthquake and destroy half the town you built just because you’re bored. As the creator in the game you are immune to the curses of the “sims” in the video game universe.

Or playing the Sims or GTA and fucking teen bitches or having affairs with married people etc etc. Maybe “karmic weight” is just a function of how seriously you take this whole cosmic playground. It’s a scary thought from the perspective of the mortal human though I’ll grant you that.