What’s more important:

Self-help or the attainment of wisdom?


Doesn’t wisdom produce the ability to better yourself.

Doesn’t the process of bettering yourself grant you wisdom?

I fail to see how the 2 are separate


From my experience, wisdom tends to allow self to fade away. At least the concern over oneself.


Would you rather receive a birthday cake or learn how to make one?


I’m not sure what definition of wisdom you’re using if that’s truely the case.

Also, I’d rather learn to make one. But how does that fit with the rest of this?


What I’m saying is that if majick is only self-serving, then it seems completely juvenile and almost fits the exact mold of Christianity.

Wouldn’t the most successful practitioner be a person who is more concerned with what’s happening outside of themselves? Forgetting about the “why” and “how” and personal gain?

Just sparking up conversation…

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Wisdom is what makes you grow. Without it we would be rather foolish, ignorant and would have a strong sheepish mentality.

Wisdom is what will help you know thyself. It will make you a better person in the end.

Wisdom doesn’t come for free however, it comes with many hours of study or from harsh lessons in our lives.


To help others, we must learn to help ourselves. To do that, we must be wise.

Many LHP only consider self, not evolving to be better humans but to be more powerful and sometimes more predatory…


Personally I prefer all of the above. Leaves more room for expansion imo.

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As far as helping others or focusing externally, the LHP is meant to be a path of individualism. So spending all my time focused on helping other people or the world as a whole would be going against the values that I hold dear. Now that isn’t to say that I don’t help other folks when I see fit, but most of my magick is used to empower myself and achieve my goals.

As far as wisdom goes, it’s something that grows from experience. It isn’t something that’s exactly measurable like power or energy. I haven’t met any wise people who didn’t have to go through hell to achieve their wisdom. And after all, wisdom is great but if there isn’t a way to apply it or grow from it, what the hell is the point in wisdom then? The physical world is an opportunity. We can either sit in our caves and make magick all day long without results, or we can go and test our skills in the physical world where we can gain power and attainment.


I agree.

I’m not even considering the idea of “helping” people. Or even “helping” yourself. In a lot of cases, true wisdom is extremely destructive. Driving people to madness. To give up on society as a whole. To become a hermit.

So the ideas of “benevolence” or “benefit” still seem very base and mundane. The idea of gaining power in order to directly affect your life, now that is interesting. But in a lot of ways, the LHP is still presented as a mirror of Evangelical Christianity. Say the right words, do the right things, and Someone will do what you want.

What about getting past what we “want” and what we “need” and just being a sponge for experiences and knowledge?

I think a person should be (for the most part) content with oneself (or at least their personal progress) before attempting to contact dieties. Cause I don’t know if I buy that these “dark” entities actually give a shit about our personal “happiness” or much of anything involving us.


I would say self-help. Wisdom seems like bs to me. Like when people say “wisdom” it can be used completely out of context and end up being foolish, case in point, do what your parents say. Sure, it might (mostly) make sense as a small child, but the world has changed so much, that doing what they say as an adult just because they suggested it can be pure folly.
Another time Wisdom can be foolish is when you think you know something, having a whole personality set up to deal with your life and situation the way it was, and then when the situation changes, things that used to be helpful can be detrimental.
On the other hand I do believe it is important to know oneself, but not necessarily in a bunch of rules that may no longer be applicable to the situation at hand.

That’s a great point.