Facing a wall

Funny that you mention those two, since those two are literally the two out of three archangels that haven’t denied assisting me.

Eh, maybe it’s just the way I view them causing these conflicts. Oh well.

I have a very good relationship with the Archangels, I use them alot in my work for others and have not been disappointed yet. They can be demanding but have not seen it be nonbeneficial yet. You may not like what they say and they may not give you what you want but they provide what one needs to better themselves.

I’m currently working with Michael now using Andrieh Vitimus’ outline. I will conclude the work with the ritual provided by Vitimus.

For those interested

Here’s the thing about Angels… They seem to be fairly pure embodiments of exact forces and processes. They don’t seem to exhibit personalities the way demons do, because there’s basically just an intelligence grafted on to a raw force. Add to that the Neo-platonic view that they’re further away from earth than the elementals, because their “role” is supposedly to bridge with the planetary spirits, so they seem more detached.
Anybody looking for a relationship with these guys could get disappointed because they won’t usually hang around and put in the extra labor and energy of a demonic King, and they won’t really be interested in chatting.

Of course, I don’t take much stock in the “set up an altar and placate St. Nicey-Nice for a 75 cent raise at work and inner peace” school, and those people swear that if your pour scented oil on a special dyed candle and pick the perfect astrological yadda ya tablecloths… But the results they report sound just as faint as the no-frills evocations I’ve done. In my opinion, when you consistently see results this weak, that means you probably don’t really understand what the entities core strengths and functions are and/or how to best employ it. Maybe they’re like the infernal spirits and there are certain pacts you have to make before they really open up to you.

I second this, I made assumptions once about a piece of advice I was given and that held me back badly, so try the above without grovelling or committing to follow what you’re told - there might be gold in it that you can use to further your ascent.

Edit to add, I thought I knew what the advice and (to some extent) block was about, but it turned out that the process of asking the RIGHT questions was part of what I had to learn, in order to get clear. The way you choose to handle this may be PART of the equation, if you see what I mean?

Well I don’t set up altars to placate any spirit be it Mr Nicey-Nice or Fucky McDemonpants. Its a point of immersion and to focus on the energy your working with and drawing into yourself. You get out what you put in, think small and you’ll get small. Asking an angel for a raise is no less small scale as asking a demon to get you laid.

I agree angels are less interested in what we desire. They’re more interested in one’s development than granting wishes and putting band aids on situations personal development could prevent in the first place.

It’s all perspective in the end, the holy rollers swearing every demon is out to screw you over is missing out just as much as the people treating angels as guilty by association because they have issues with Gawd because some preacher said something they don’t like. The point of magick is to discover for yourself, let preconceived notions and hangups get in the way and your bound to see lackluster results. Limit yourself and logic dictates you’ll limit everything else.

Just to clarify what I was saying, I get the same/comparable results doing a five minute evocation of various “saints” and lesser angels as someone who takes a week to immerse themselves and make a big crazy thing out of it. Demons, archangels, etc, WHOLE different story. But then, I’m “in” with those guys, so to speak.
It’s possible that millennia of Christian conceptualization have obscured what these “angels” are really there for - because when you think about what people turn to them for, most of those things are already covered by demons, planetary spirits, gods, enochian spirits, etc. Except they do seem to emphasize emotions, so maybe that’s their bag?

Angels are as older as the universe creation… hebrew myths (and al derivates) are not.

Just saying.