Evocation of Satan with E.A. Koetting

I would pay for a ritual from E.A. just so I could have a video to show my friends of E.A. doing a ritual on my behalf. I would think of it more in an artistic sense, people pay more than that to get box seats at a Lady Gaga concert and it’s fun but not in any way personalized. The Dark Arts is just that an Art worthy of appreciation by a fan of the work and the artist. Of course I could pay 25 bucks for a painting of a soup can but there’s a reason people drop big bucks on an Andy Warhol, or an Austin Osman Spare.

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Not trying to support EA here at all, but isnt this what the LHP supposed to be? To serve the self? For the black magickian to put himself over everything and everyone else? Arent we all here to fulfill our own selfish individualistic needs?
Is the motive in question or the outcome?

If we start addressing the morals and ethics behind LHP we would be facing the danger of it becoming a movement that will closely resemble a religious path.

Well EA, Timothy and Satan are capitalists, and EA is doing all the work so he can charge whatever he wants for it. Maybe the reason he’s asking so much is so he does not have to keep doing the same ritual for other people for the next six months everyday. Or it might motivate anyone who feels butthurt over the price to go do the goddamn pact themselves who knows. My feeling on it is if Satan wants EA to make a pact with him and me, the Lord of Darkness will buy the fucking thing for me, other then that i will keep spending all my money on pussy and beer. Hail Satan =)

Valid approaches all. And I suppose no one is holding a gun to anyone’s head to force them into it either. I find it a little disgusting, but I guess others may value it in different ways. I also acknowledge that as a black magician, EA has no requirement to be ethical.

Adam, I appreciate the point. I also enjoy magic as art.

If someone can afford it, than all the power to them. If EA really pulls the ritual off well it may be worth the price of admission. If anyone decides to go through with it, please do pm me about the experience.

OK here is how I view it. Its really not that big of a deal I mean yes none of us buy into the christian dogma cuz its bullshit, but the Master has been brought into being by being feared and being made up as a story. So Satan was brought into existence by the very people who shun him. So he is basically a demonic egregore and his current is real enough because of Christians fearing him and the Satanists praying to him, therefore it is valid. And like Lady Eva said experience has changes his opinion. The fact EA has publicly denounced Satan as an entity through earlier workings surely does not help him. However either way you look at it its gonna sell and work, plus it would be foolish to judge another based upon a conviction that has not been put through ones personal tests.

Well. Its up to you to evaluate E.A. … At most you are paying for his time and effort to do a Ritual and anything else in between. Time is precious, and a good point someone made when people pay for things to go to concerts. I could easily drop a few hundred on a night out in town on a decent meal and some drinks alone.

when i heard Eric saying that Satan is not that big, i was a little confused. but i decided not to trust him on that. i thought to myself… maybe this guy is lying on purpose.
then, i got enlightened, through Father Satan, and in a period of time after that i thought to myself hahahaha i know more then Koetting!!
:slight_smile:
of course, there’s no need to explain any of this. no need at all…

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Well I wasnt really defending him. Just common sense. I wouldnt trust anyones word if Satan is big or not. Maybe Satan doesnt give a shit about small fry to manifest in their existence enough to prove how big he is? Then you have those that said “I defeated and killed such and such a spirit” which may of been a small fraction of the manifestation of said spirit, when its actual presence is manifested elsewhere in other realities around the world…as in said people making claims are only Validating their own existence they want to entertain. Just food for thought.

I would say that when you work with the “Essence” of Satan that it will change your opinion…and that takes some getting to know him.

Well… Varnaxis asked me to post his info on here because this forum has, through the marketing endeavours of Timothy & E.A., got a number of serious magicians, student and experienced alike, reading it: people who are generally more likely to be interested in darker magick (or at least not afraid of it), so he knew he’d be able to get his sigil and information into the hands of people who could really use it.

However you slice it, that IS me and my Uncle taking a free ride on BALG’s dime to some extent - they pay for the bandwidth, after all, and their reputation and profile have created the environment in which we got the chance to share his details.

There’s a lot more I could say in response to why that sigil and information didn’t cost you $500, but I don’t want to get into exposition over why I’ve made the choices I have; suffice to say that there’s no comparison between a professional person - in any field of endeavour whatsoever - who provides a skilled service for a living, with all the commitment of time and effort that entails, and someone who talks about that subject, however knowledgeably and seriously, on an internet forum.

If I take my dog to a vet, that’s a quantum leap from reading expert guidance online from either vets or experienced dog owners - both have value, I’ve found some real gems online in my years as a doggy-mama, but the personal consultation is a whole different level, and I’d be laughed out the surgery if I suggested they do it for free (or at bargain rates) just because “Casey from Oklahoma” is happy to post about canine health and remedies on the internet for nothing. :slight_smile:

My strongly-held view is that magick is not religion, not just some airy-fairy mysticism, it’s a learned and learnable craft, a skill used to change reality, and so magick for money is, to me, as valid as surgery for money, dentistry for money, childcare for money, building walls for money - any skill people have, and can bring to market and reliably deliver - go to it, and good luck.

If you don’t agree, then that’s fair enough, but that’s my stance in a nutshell.

I don’t have a problem with a range of prices within that market, either, the same thing happens with everything from food to handbags to cars (vets who do antibody titres instead of routine annual vax, and are open to herbal remedies, sure as shit cost more than the yearly-jabs mainstream guys) - it’s how our society works, and as black magicians we surely have a right to profit from society as it stands, rather than get all angsty about overturning it in pursuit of some egalitarian “utopia” at our own expense?

Anyway that’s my take on it all, yours is maybe different - such is life. :slight_smile:

To those who haven’t seen it, please take a look at this thread I recently made:

Challenge: Evocation of the real Satan, Shaitan
http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/qa-with-e-a/challenge-evocation-of-the-real-satan-shaitan/

I actually challenged EA Koetting to summon the real, actual Satan or Shaitan/Iblis. I do not know if he was inspired by my thread, but I’m glad he’s now calling on him more frequently. I also posted sigils unique to Satan himself (not the one shared w/ Lucifer).

This is a common misconception. I am convinced that Satan predates Abrahamism. Take a good look at this: http://theisticsatanism.com/geifodd/diabolatry.html .

The Bible does refer to Asmodeus, Belial, Behemoth, Beelzebub, the Queen of Heaven (whether Isis, Venus, Asherah, Astarte), Ba’al… The book of Enoch does, for its part, refer to Azazel. Does it mean all those deities are Judeo-Christian constructs??? No! So why would Satan and Lucifer be?

Now, as E.A. stated, Satan (linked to Lucifer) has become the most reviled and feared spiritual entity on Earth, thanks to Judaism and mostly Christianity and Islam. All such fear-mongering and indoctrination must be giving Satan much extra power.

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I’m not going to argue any points about prices being fair or not. If it is something that is worth it to you an in your price range then go for it. If not than don’t. He is after all a full time black magician an has his own expenses as well he is going beyond being mediocre an placing himself in a higher bracket of income status… is that not what he teaches? I certainly want to attain above mediocre. I invested some cash into books, consults, an a course… was it a bit steep of a price at the time for me? Yes… but I’d rather invest in myself than piddle it away on other mediocre things I could spend the money on. Oddly enough… The cash flow has been increasing in my life since.

Thats great advice… for responsible, mature individuals in a secure life situation with plenty of disposable income, to whom 800 bucks is ‘meh’.

Its not great advice to the desperate, to the naive, or to the gullible, all of which are going to be the prime candidates for hiring EA to do such a ritual.

This is because you are giving an appeal to ones common sense and ability to think clearly from a wisened vantage point, but the people who are able to do this, are NOT the demographic that is sought after.

The problem here is one of measurability. You are trading a measurable sum, for one that cannot be measured. EA is getting something hard, concrete, and something he can figuratively and quite literally, “take to the bank”. The buyer, gets some intangible hope and maybe a tiny sense of temporary mental security as a direct result.

All other results that are not direct are strictly correlative and cannot be said to be causative, thus the immeasurability of the purchase.

Look at this deal objectively… its a bad one for the buyer, and anyone who is thinking clearly, is not desperate, not naive, and has wised up to the world and its people, would never buy into it.

Again, its the desperate, the naive, and the gullible, who are the targets here. And I think that is offending many peoples internal sense of morality and code of personal ethics.

Even if that was true (which is a matter of opinion, especially since the mailing list is opt-in) you’re basing this entire criticism on the presumption that the ritual will do nothing for them. Nothing whatsoever.

Summoning a spirit and linking it to someone for that person’s benefit is what shamans have been doing, in ways appropriate to their tribes and cultures, since the dawn of time - E.A.'s doing the same for his tribe, for the very niche market of people for whom being entered in “Satan’s black book” or whatever sounds cool (rather than being the stuff of nightmares) so I don’t think that in the absence of other evidence, the simple service he’s offering is so far out, that we can all presume it’s a fake?

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Thats great advice… for responsible, mature individuals in a secure life situation with plenty of disposable income, to whom 800 bucks is ‘meh’.

Its not great advice to the desperate, to the naive, or to the gullible, all of which are going to be the prime candidates for hiring EA to do such a ritual.

This is because you are giving an appeal to ones common sense and ability to think clearly from a wisened vantage point, but the people who are able to do this, are NOT the demographic that is sought after.

The problem here is one of measurability. You are trading a measurable sum, for one that cannot be measured. EA is getting something hard, concrete, and something he can figuratively and quite literally, “take to the bank”. The buyer, gets some intangible hope and maybe a tiny sense of temporary mental security as a direct result.

All other results that are not direct are strictly correlative and cannot be said to be causative, thus the immeasurability of the purchase.

Look at this deal objectively… its a bad one for the buyer, and anyone who is thinking clearly, is not desperate, not naive, and has wised up to the world and its people, would never buy into it.

Again, its the desperate, the naive, and the gullible, who are the targets here. And I think that is offending many peoples internal sense of morality and code of personal ethics.[/quote]
A pact or ritual from E.A. is a luxury item. If someone is desperate they can find plenty of up and coming individuals to do what needs done within your price range. If you are broke you drive a busted old lemon of a car or ride the bus but if you got the cash you drive a BMW because you can. E.A. doesn’t target certain people he doesn’t even advertise this as a service. Like I said there are all kinds of people on this site and others that will do that service for a much much smaller fee. E.A. has high fees because he is a celebrity magician and what you are paying for is pulling him away from his business and taking up his time which he could be using to work on his next book or video so that’s why it costs so much it’s simple economics.

Well, I don’t really agree with the blood pact portion. That would mean I would have to be there- in person- to do so. Otherwise, how am I sure it will work? I’ve heard of some black magic groups do that where they’re “initiated” because they sold their soul to some entity. Sounds rather cult-like to me.

On the plus side, he did say it wasn’t for people who weren’t sure of it. He did say that it’s for those who are serious about doing black magic work. So he is being responsible from one standpoint.

I would also be rude to criticize an actual ritual or ceremony like this without seeing it in detail. I hope to God he doesn’t mean astral blood pact- as that’s probably more dangerous and also lame as hell.

If he is confident enough to charge that amount of money for such and risk the whole of his business on such, because let’s be honest if it didn’t produce any results then he is going to have a bunch of very pissed off people defaming him… then I think it is atleast a fair assumption to say that he must feel the benefits out way the potential risk. As with anything the results will show in time… With either satisfied or dissatisfied clients.

Not exactly, Eva. I say no where that nothing will happen. I am only saying that the results cannot be declared causative, only correlative. Something tangible that is not of debatable value (generally speaking) is being traded for something intangible that a value cannot be assigned to, because its not directly linkable to the purchase and its results from person to person will be variable.

I do not speak to the actual result nor to the efficacy of the ritual, only to the circumstances of the deal itself, and I think Ive spoken true of it. Its a trade of something tangible for something intangible, and I believe that kind of deal attracts highly those people who I mentioned.

Look at it strictly from an outside perspective, looking only at the objective details of the trade. Its selling hope. And thats what I think many people do not like about it. It is what it is; you are paying physical currency for a non-physical direct result with the hope of a physical indirect result.

Whether EA delivers or not, I cannot and do not speak to and make no insinuations to the quality of his services, nor is this a judgement of EA himself, nor his skills.

I do see what you are saying BB44. people who pay for this are doing so at their own risk. Someone who pays money for a self help workshop or for an energy attunement or a hypnosis therapy all have the same thing in common. They are paying with something tangible for something intangible. They are doing so at their own risk. I personally would not purchase this. If I make a pact I am doing so myself.

Thats great advice… for responsible, mature individuals in a secure life situation with plenty of disposable income, to whom 800 bucks is ‘meh’.

Its not great advice to the desperate, to the naive, or to the gullible, all of which are going to be the prime candidates for hiring EA to do such a ritual.

This is because you are giving an appeal to ones common sense and ability to think clearly from a wisened vantage point, but the people who are able to do this, are NOT the demographic that is sought after.

The problem here is one of measurability. You are trading a measurable sum, for one that cannot be measured. EA is getting something hard, concrete, and something he can figuratively and quite literally, “take to the bank”. The buyer, gets some intangible hope and maybe a tiny sense of temporary mental security as a direct result.

All other results that are not direct are strictly correlative and cannot be said to be causative, thus the immeasurability of the purchase.

Look at this deal objectively… its a bad one for the buyer, and anyone who is thinking clearly, is not desperate, not naive, and has wised up to the world and its people, would never buy into it.

Again, its the desperate, the naive, and the gullible, who are the targets here. And I think that is offending many peoples internal sense of morality and code of personal ethics.[/quote]

How is this different from any other professional service EA does and is compensated for? He offers many services for a wide range of practitioners. Perhaps he is working in a Satanic current that resonates with him, and offers to share and connect others into it? Not that people can’t connect with Satan on their own of course… But sometimes people may like a certain structure to things. I personally don’t use middlemen when dealing with spirits, I connect directly, yet if EA offers to make pacts between folks and Satan, that’s his perogative, and that of the people attracted to the offer.

Again he is a professional magician, so he will market his services… I think each magician must determine what success looks like for themselves, so they can know what is best for them, and act accordingly.