Don't Goetics Hate Being Constrained?

According to some, Goetics (and certain other Spirits) hate being constrained and will avenge themselves in the magician’s afterlife…

The Lesser Key of Solomon as well as other grimoires have harsh conjurations and threats aimed at them. I long tried to avoid such methods to work with Goetics but I think I’ve grown out of options (can’t work shit). What do you think?

There are even such conjurations to work with Lucifer & Lucifuge Rofocale and I was told they HATE that to DEATH…

[quote=“Enlightener_Illuminator, post:1, topic:3066”]According to some, Goetics (and certain other Spirits) hate being constrained and will avenge themselves in the magician’s afterlife…

The Lesser Key of Solomon as well as other grimoires have harsh conjurations and threats aimed at them. I long tried to avoid such methods to work with Goetics but I think I’ve grown out of options (can’t work shit). What do you think?

There are even such conjurations to work with Lucifer & Lucifuge Rofocale and I was told they HATE that to DEATH…[/quote]

How would you like it if some punk ass kid came up to you and tied you up and kicked you in the nuts. Then said bitch answer my question or im going to kick you in the nuts again. I always found it very insulting and degrading to approach any spirit, or aspects of the higher self in this manner. I have not read it yet but from what I have been told is that Connollys Goetia is very well put together and strips away alot of that. However I have not yet read it yet so I cannot say for sure.

Also personally if that was done to me… I would hunt down that punk kid and break his legs. ROFL

I have always prefered the respectful way myself. Hopefully Baphomet will chime in, he has a lot of experience with the grimoire methods, where I have little.

[quote=“Enlightener_Illuminator, post:1, topic:3066”]I long tried to avoid such methods to work with Goetics but I think I’ve grown out of options (can’t work shit). What do you think?

There are even such conjurations to work with Lucifer & Lucifuge Rofocale and I was told they HATE that to DEATH…[/quote]

The only thing I’m fairly certain of is that you have to have faith in the method you use, have absolute confidence it aligns with your values and beliefs, and that to start using these forms if you’re feeling guilty or nervous of the repercussions is probably unwise, so make sure you immerse yourself in the method and reasoning behind it before you try to use it.

I’ve evoked entities whilst sitting on my bed with a small incense burner on the nightstand, no circles or triangles or anything, and that makes sense for me, but if I’d been terrified of the entity leaping out and possessing me, or that it was somehow a damnation-level offence to call an entity without using Divine authority, I doubt I would have had a very good experience.

Whatever the complicated metaphysical reasons for that, I advise you to learn the paradigm and explore any negative feelings you might have before using it. Hopefully Baphomet or someone equally educated in that method can point you in the right direction there.

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:5, topic:3066”][quote=“Enlightener_Illuminator, post:1, topic:3066”]I long tried to avoid such methods to work with Goetics but I think I’ve grown out of options (can’t work shit). What do you think?

There are even such conjurations to work with Lucifer & Lucifuge Rofocale and I was told they HATE that to DEATH…[/quote]

The only thing I’m fairly certain of is that you have to have faith in the method you use, have absolute confidence it aligns with your values and beliefs, and that to start using these forms if you’re feeling guilty or nervous of the repercussions is probably unwise, so make sure you immerse yourself in the method and reasoning behind it before you try to use it.

I’ve evoked entities whilst sitting on my bed with a small incense burner on the nightstand, no circles or triangles or anything, and that makes sense for me, but if I’d been terrified of the entity leaping out and possessing me, or that it was somehow a damnation-level offence to call an entity without using Divine authority, I doubt I would have had a very good experience.

Whatever the complicated metaphysical reasons for that, I advise you to learn the paradigm and explore any negative feelings you might have before using it. Hopefully Baphomet or someone equally educated in that method can point you in the right direction there.[/quote]

^^^^ THIS

ALL OF YOU HAVE MISSED THE BIGGER ISSUE AT HAND

I know this secret, and I will say there’s a reason E.A. put an Aramaic binding (those who know what it actually is, won’t use that term) on his universal circle. E.A. has confirmed to me that this is exactly why he put these markings on this circle.

I will say this is a lost and truly ancient art, and that this secret alone being lost to many of my enemies has given me an enormous advantage over many of them. I also have no intention of disclosing why or how, but I will say the adept sorcerer will be able to figure this out, and will be content to let children bind spirits, curse them, and throw salt in their eyes, and for these people to be left to their own devices. While the true practitioner attains godly ascent and power from all the spirits he summons, knowing how to attain their power and claim it for oneself in a righteous act of defiance and godhood that the spirit will obediently accept and gladly grant the practitioner all of it’s power as their goals are obviously one.

Spirits usually do hate bindings, and when such idiots send them after me, such spirits are very kind and helpful in directing me to the person that bound them, so I can attack the living shit out of them, and reverse all their bindings at once causing them to loose power over all these spirits, causing whole legions of spirits to return en force like a damn bursting in the face of the arrogant asshole who got what was coming to him. The usual result of this is death or insanity, as these spirits will continue to take vengeance for what was done to them long after I leave.

There is a difference between what we do with evocation, and what others do out of ignorance, but they do this, because they misunderstand a lost and ancient art that was left in pieces for them to put together, and not everyone was brilliant and well versed in the occult enough to put humpty dumpty together again.

Good Luck, and Godspeed,
-Frater Apotheosis

[quote=“Frater Apotheosis, post:7, topic:3066”]ALL OF YOU HAVE MISSED THE BIGGER ISSUE AT HAND

I know this secret, and I will say there’s a reason E.A. put an Aramaic binding (those who know what it actually is, won’t use that term) on his universal circle. E.A. has confirmed to me that this is exactly why he put these markings on this circle.

I will say this is a lost and truly ancient art, and that this secret alone being lost to many of my enemies has given me an enormous advantage over many of them. I also have no intention of disclosing why or how, but I will say the adept sorcerer will be able to figure this out, and will be content to let children bind spirits, curse them, and throw salt in their eyes, and for these people to be left to their own devices. While the true practitioner attains godly ascent and power from all the spirits he summons, knowing how to attain their power and claim it for oneself in a righteous act of defiance and godhood that the spirit will obediently accept and gladly grant the practitioner all of it’s power as their goals are obviously one.

Spirits usually do hate bindings, and when such idiots send them after me, such spirits are very kind and helpful in directing me to the person that bound them, so I can attack the living shit out of them, and reverse all their bindings at once causing them to loose power over all these spirits, causing whole legions of spirits to return en force like a damn bursting in the face of the arrogant asshole who got what was coming to him. The usual result of this is death or insanity, as these spirits will continue to take vengeance for what was done to them long after I leave.

There is a difference between what we do with evocation, and what others do out of ignorance, but they do this, because they misunderstand a lost and ancient art that was left in pieces for them to put together, and not everyone was brilliant and well versed in the occult enough to put humpty dumpty together again.

Good Luck, and Godspeed,
-Frater Apotheosis[/quote]

That makes perfect sense to me. I need to share on here more often!

But also again as I said. If someone did this to me I would break their legs. xD

I’ve spent my entire life climbing out of the fucking “triangle” in which I was supposedly permitted to manifest as a human being - go to school, study hard, get a respectable sensible job you hate but feel resigned to doing, have these pre-approved neuroses, don’t ask too much of life. Etcetera! :frowning:

I don’t want to rant too much but I developed my methods from a young age because spirits were sometimes there for me and were respectful of me, when the adult humans in my life weren’t, so while I’m not all like “Hey we’re one big happy family” - coz some of them can be sneaky, or indifferent, or just outright weird - that stuff just doesn’t click for me.

Anyway: back on topic, I wonder whether people who use more co-operative methods sometime inadvertantly undermine themselves because somewhere in there is the idea that only the more compulsion-based methods are “the real deal”?

I don’t know if that’s true of you, E_I, but it might be worth having a think about it anyway? If that WASN’T an option, what would your next steps be?

And what exactly are you having tourble with - interacting with them, or getting them to actually do what you’ve asked?

I’ve never had a Goetic complain about me calling them by the Abrahamic methods. If they don’t like it they should have never signed their name/seal in the Liber Spirituum in times past. Most of the complaints I get us that I disturbed them and they would rather me cut out the pleasant and get to the point so I can dismiss them and they can go on about getting the job done and then back to w/e they were doing.

However, I will say that the Grimoire Tradition methods take away their free will. So if they come across a magician that uses a more modern method that allows the spirit to actually say no to a request, of course they’ll do everything in their power to try and make sure said magician always uses that method. Wouldn’t you? Furthermore, I don’t think you find many, kd any, classical magicians who will report that they had a complaint about the methods used. They signed their name and agreed to come when called using specific methods. If they really don’t like it they have no one to blame but themselves.

[quote=“Baphomet, post:11, topic:3066”]I’ve never had a Goetic complain about me calling them by the Abrahamic methods. If they don’t like it they should have never signed their name/seal in the Liber Spirituum in times past. Most of the complaints I get us that I disturbed them and they would rather me cut out the pleasant and get to the point so I can dismiss them and they can go on about getting the job done and then back to w/e they were doing.

However, I will say that the Grimoire Tradition methods take away their free will. So if they come across a magician that uses a more modern method that allows the spirit to actually say no to a request, of course they’ll do everything in their power to try and make sure said magician always uses that method. Wouldn’t you? Furthermore, I don’t think you find many, kd any, classical magicians who will report that they had a complaint about the methods used. They signed their name and agreed to come when called using specific methods. If they really don’t like it they have no one to blame but themselves.[/quote]

In the end, you are removing more than the spirit’s free will, but you are removing the greatest possibility for it to manifest it’s own nature, and that’s what this is really about.

Why don’t you pay $200 dollars to E.A. just to have him tell you there isn’t a method of coercing a spirit other than your own will. This is why you need to have knowledge of your own divinity and power to control the experience and not have some of the most incredibly powerful and volatile spiritual manifestations (composed purely of consciousness and omnipotence) destroy you outright. The only preparation for contacting such spirits, is successive gnosis from previous evocation until one knows one’s own divinity and can claim it in the circle…If you use circles at all that is. Many here including myself don’t really use them. I bought the universal circle, and until I understood it’s true purpose, I loathed it’s existence the way someone loathes putting gasoline into a hybrid car.

Unlike Koetting, I firmly believe that you can’t just throw down symbols and manifest all their powers with no understanding of what they mean. Aside from the relative power of some very ancient languages, I find this to be very arbitrary for you to expect to call upon a being who is in some cases older than time and the universe, and have it manifest it’s nature in particular ways, because you put down a symbol, the nature of which you don’t fully understand because it was something you saw in a book 5 minutes before your ritual. If you of course, even understand what it means, and have any recognition of it’s power at all. Franz Bardon agrees with me on the greater particulars of the points I’m making about the circle, and I’m not just pulling this out of my asshole to look good.

However, I will admit, this is not 100% true, but this deals with “ancestral memories” in DNA, and it has to deal with how certain forms of omnipotence change genes over successive contact specifically over thousands of years and hundreds of generations, which somehow gets mistaken for racism. Then the discussion will invariably lead to unjustly dropping of the race card, or a discussion of Hitler and or National Socialism. None of these options interest me slightly…So let’s save ourselves the time and not go there. This is BALG, let’s not turn it into storm front.

If you think you can truly explore the potential of these practices in ritual by the manner of willy nilly slapping down random symbols of power and constraining the powers of your greatest allies by pissing them off, I’d like to sell you a super elite secret “hokey pokey binding” for the universal circle, after you perform this rite which constrains the spirits, you will find it will force all spirits to suck your dick and give you money forever and ever, and you’ll win at all things including art, irony, and leet magix and become an ultimate god.

It is for sale for over $9000. PM me for my paypal if your interested. I will only teach one person because I will leave the forum after accepting the money. (I am only willing to barter for depraved sexual acts with women on this forum.)

I had a friend who explained this through one of the famous beings of the necronomicon, and one of the famous blinds that’s written in the book about it. A lot of sorcerers think that spirit is incredibly harmful, and willing to destroy the sorcerer if not constrained or if the sorcerer is not properly protected. However, this is not the nature of the entity at all, but if the sorcerer calls on it, and expects this to show up, that’s exactly what he will manifest. And he will also find it thoroughly useless to what he probably wants to achieve, which is not being destroyed by the spirit, but claiming his throne of godliness.

Best of Luck,
-Frater Apotheosis

[quote=“Baphomet, post:11, topic:3066”]I’ve never had a Goetic complain about me calling them by the Abrahamic methods. If they don’t like it they should have never signed their name/seal in the Liber Spirituum in times past. Most of the complaints I get us that I disturbed them and they would rather me cut out the pleasant and get to the point so I can dismiss them and they can go on about getting the job done and then back to w/e they were doing.

However, I will say that the Grimoire Tradition methods take away their free will. So if they come across a magician that uses a more modern method that allows the spirit to actually say no to a request, of course they’ll do everything in their power to try and make sure said magician always uses that method. Wouldn’t you? Furthermore, I don’t think you find many, kd any, classical magicians who will report that they had a complaint about the methods used. They signed their name and agreed to come when called using specific methods. If they really don’t like it they have no one to blame but themselves.[/quote]

Good point!

Just a small, small thing to say in these blocks of text.

The concept of priming applies to a vast majority of humans, although you can reduce or eliminate it from your way of thinking if you figure out or learn how.

When you consider that spirits are agitated, could it not be that you think that they are agitated? Remember that what we do here in interpretative, above all still funnelled through the filter that is our consciousness. And we can only piece together things with what we know, well most of the time. How often do we get things we could not even remotely imagine as humans?

In fact, the only times I think that I’ve met displeased spirits are when I myself am not fully prepared to my satisfaction. And it only seems because I was not in a state to fully actualize what I was capable of. Its silly isn’t it?

Then again, I’ve never been much for sticking to particular methods, so I understand some things raised might be lost on me.

I’ve spent my entire life climbing out of the fucking “triangle” in which I was supposedly permitted to manifest as a human being - go to school, study hard, get a respectable sensible job you hate but feel resigned to doing, have these pre-approved neuroses, don’t ask too much of life. Etcetera! :frowning:

I don’t want to rant too much but I developed my methods from a young age because spirits were sometimes there for me and were respectful of me, when the adult humans in my life weren’t, so while I’m not all like “Hey we’re one big happy family” - coz some of them can be sneaky, or indifferent, or just outright weird - that stuff just doesn’t click for me.

Anyway: back on topic, I wonder whether people who use more co-operative methods sometime inadvertantly undermine themselves because somewhere in there is the idea that only the more compulsion-based methods are “the real deal”?

I don’t know if that’s true of you, E_I, but it might be worth having a think about it anyway? If that WASN’T an option, what would your next steps be?

And what exactly are you having tourble with - interacting with them, or getting them to actually do what you’ve asked?[/quote]

HMMM I never really undermine myself or think that way. I more or less just respect all around me. The spirit I currently am working with and developing a close relationship with, I have never had the need to do anything of the sort. I am trying to evoke him this summer outside.

Can you elaborate on this a bit more? I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying completely.

I do not mean to offend you but judging from the quoted post, it seems you don’t know much about Grimoire Tradition or it’s use of magic circles. Most people (translated as most LHPers) look at it and all they see are the God Names, Angel names, sacred symbols and see the conjurations laced with Abrahamic dogma and they dismiss it as nothing more than that. There is a deeper spirituality going on within GT practice and it’s laid out in the cosmology of the circle which puts the magician at the center of the universe, which means he takes on Divine Authority. Might I direct you to taking a look at this definitive text on the circles we use in our art, their meaning and cosmology they represent:

http://ouroboros-press.bookarts.org/portfolio/magic-circles-in-the-grimoire-tradition/

Neither do Grimoire Traditionalists. Just because you have all the tools and can properly recite the conjurations does not ensure a successful evocation. Something deeper must be achieved first.

Where are you getting the notion that Grimoire Traditionalists believe that if all they do is plop down a properly drawn circle and recite some conjurations that success will follow? The untrained novice may think this, but then again, they’re novices and don’t know any better. But any GT magician who has had a successful manifestation will tell you that just having the right circle means little. Again, there is much more going on than just a cool looking circle and some fancy conjurations. I’d like to know where you’re getting this information from.

Again I ask, where are you getting this information from?

I have read a lot of the grimoires, and while I’ve never worked from that system, it does have a lot more to it than just “do as I say, now” (grabs blasting rod)… Each tool and symbol has it’s place, symbolism and reason. If you understand the significance behind each detail, it can always be modified. Dragon Rouge has done this, they modified the Grimoire Tradition to fit a Qlippothic point of view, but the changes were made by fully understanding the reason for each tool and conjuration. And I can’t say much against it, because the system I work with, while highly respectful, can at times be just as complicated with tools and conjurations as the GT. Same goes for me, each tool and word has it’s place within my circle of stones. That’s why I’m glad Baphomet joined the discussion, I’ve only read about the GT, while he practices it.

P.S. Thanks for the link to the book on magick circles, may have to get that one.

[quote=“andreeje, post:17, topic:3066”]I have read a lot of the grimoires, and while I’ve never worked from that system, it does have a lot more to it than just “do as I say, now” (grabs blasting rod)… Each tool and symbol has it’s place, symbolism and reason. If you understand the significance behind each detail, it can always be modified. Dragon Rouge has done this, they modified the Grimoire Tradition to fit a Qlippothic point of view, but the changes were made by fully understanding the reason for each tool and conjuration. And I can’t say much against it, because the system I work with, while highly respectful, can at times be just as complicated with tools and conjurations as the GT. Same goes for me, each tool and word has it’s place within my circle of stones. That’s why I’m glad Baphomet joined the discussion, I’ve only read about the GT, while he practices it.

P.S. Thanks for the link to the book on magick circles, may have to get that one.[/quote]

Thanks, Andreeje. I agree with what you’re saying. Each tool has a specific meaning behind it and one must understand that symbolism in order to get that particular tool to “work” properly. Also, I think I should note there that the grimoires of old were never meant to be published. They were more of a magical journal of that particular magician/priest/exorcist and was only meant to be shared among his close comrades of like mind or kept totally secret. Therefore, the grimoire assumes the practitioner knows about the symbolism and the meanings behind the tools, the cosmology of the circle, etc. That’s why it’s great we have authors like Joe Peterson, Jake Stratton-Kent and Frater Thaibon who have taken up the mantle to explain these things to the masses. So at first glance, I can see how someone could make the mistake that the grimoires seem to just say “put down the circle, grab your robe, cap and lionskin belt, say some fancy latin words and BAM, a demon appears in your face”. This isn’t so.

Andreeje, the Dragon Rouge you’re speaking about; is this the Thomas Karlsson one? If so, do you recommend I get any of his books. I’ve briefly glossed over the site in the past but never really have it a serious look.

I second Jake Stratton Kent, his series on Goetic Magick is flat out as good as it gets. And yes, Karlsson’s book “Qabalah, Qlippoth and Goetic Magick” is pretty good. Gives a lot of history and the reason behind things. I wouldn’t spend a fortune on it, but if you can get a good price it’s worth it.

And just what has JSK accomplished with his magic?

For an allegedly practising magician he sure has precious little to say about it.