Beautiful words. Can I quote you on that?[quote=“KurtisJoseph, post:15, topic:19600”]
Let me evoke you through fire and sacrifice a chicken in your name. Feel the euphoria and power and then tell me this practice does not hold merit.
Brings back a lot of what I read in Necromancy grimoires. After having worked to a certain extent with actual souls I must say you make a good point.
I would disagree. It is amazing how people are incapable of following simple instructions. More importantly though, a large part of this is commitment. Just because you follow every step in a rite doesn’t mean you will get results the first time round. That’s where most people give up. I am not anti improvisation. I am simply anti people who try to wing it from the start and deride the ancient practices without knowing which parts truly have merit.[quote=“succupedia, post:18, topic:19600”]
You could do the total opposite of a magical practice and get the same result. Why?
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I disagree. To a certain extent you can force things through sheer force of will. Once we get to throwing people across the room with your powers alone things change (I speak from experience). It just won’t work as well. There is a reason why the ancient alchemical practices were written the way they are. There is a formula to this. Can they be improved? Of course. Can they simply be winged without any basis in the “secrets” that make them work? No.
[quote=“TheStorm, post:20, topic:19600”]
There is more to magick than simply directed intent.[/quote]
As I see it, intent is the basis of getting a result from practicing magic, whether you follow traditional ancient rituals or not. You’re just simplifying and dismissing that word without an actual argument against it.
So you see intent as a weak practicing method, and as something “simple”? There are self proclaimed “advanced black magicians” that advocates science, yet they can’t explain specific areas in technical- and mechanical terms within their own comprehensions. Knowledge is power, and if you can’t share area specific functions of your magical path, you’re not a good adversary or teacher.
Now, I’m not arguing against ancient rituals or ancient magic at all. I never was to start with. You just missed my point of not ridiculing the methodology of other practitioners and their respective paths, or of other ways to practice magic.
@succupedia [quote=“succupedia, post:23, topic:19600”]
There are self proclaimed “advanced black magicians” that advocates science, yet they can’t explain specific areas in technical- and mechanical terms within their own comprehensions.
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Some things are beyond explanation by modern scientific concepts. Dismissing techniques THAT WORK out of hand because you can’t explain them is stupid. We can’t explain everything (well maybe @KurtisJoseph can. I will leave that to him). [quote=“succupedia, post:23, topic:19600”]
As I see it, intent is the basis of getting a result from practicing magic,
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To a certain extent, yes, but there needs to be MORE than intent. The truly flashy feats (of the throwing people across the room variety) require something deeper. A connection to the acausal if you will.
@succupedia EA talks about Pure Mantras. Words that have power IN AND OF THEMSELVES. Regardless of the intent with which you speak them. That is what I am getting at here. Intent ISN’T everything. There are things that have power in and of themselves.
And most things are not beyond the personal comprehension to explain what happened in retroperspective, either, isn’t it? Maybe the hunt for results takes away the search for understanding and meaning of the experience, and that’s quite naive and narrow, if you ask me.
If I ask you about energies, spirit energies and spirit behaviorism, could you recall anything of it than just a personal opinion? Or you just simply doesn’t care about it at all?
Powers without comprehension or responsibility? That’s quite naive and a narrow approach. There’s more to magic than destruction and chaos, and power isn’t only about these two approaches.
And how would you teach others about your path of necromancy? “Do this at your own risk and wing it.”? How would you explain the death current for someone that sees spirits? How would you explain it for someone that hears it, or feels it? How would you give comfort and confidence to someone that doesn’t understand what they’re going through, with the response of fear? Could you guide them to the right direction of their path? Or are you just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing?
Firstly, I don’t teach. Secondly, exactly the opposite. Follow the rites to the letter until you know what you are doing would be my advice. I don’t “just wing things”.You should be able to tell that from my posts. The abillity to adapt comes from experience and communication with the Spirits. I am a strong believer that all beginners should follow instructions as given.[quote=“succupedia, post:27, topic:19600”]
And most things are not beyond the personal comprehension to explain what happened in retroperspective, either, isn’t it?
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Write out exactly how the First Flame of the OAA works please. That’s the sort of thing that I am talking about. It’s possible, sure, it’s definitely not easy.[quote=“succupedia, post:27, topic:19600”]
There’s more to magic than destruction and chaos, and power
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True. I was just giving a quick analogy. Immortality and Power is what matters. Destruction is a part of power. Knowledge leads to power.
There are Paths that should not be winged. If anything I’d advocate absolute adherence to the rites until you are at such a state where you are capable of properly adapting them. I don’t know where your “Do this at your own risk and wing it.” idea comes from.
I can’t share something I haven’t tried, but if you’ve done the First Flame, please share it if you like. I have shared a lot of other things over the years quite thoroughly.
Well, that matters for YOU, not necessarily for everyone else. We’re all have different views, life experiences and goals. That includes the mundane world as well as within magic.
We have different views of magic and, apparently, approaches it differently as well. We’re also on different paths. There’s nothing wrong with that. I agree to disagree and stay with that.
Yes. Let us do that.
The point was that the First Flame is the most arbitrary seeming set of activities ever. There are probably very few people who can explain it. It would be completely against what I was trying to say if I could 
I can’t explain something from a book I haven’t read and practiced, but if it’s arbitrary, I have probably explained it from the perspective of my own experiences in here allready.
I have to agree with @KurtisJoseph on this one. Some thing require more energy. Yes the imagination is a powerful if not the most powerful force we have, but even an atomic bomb cannot blow up the earth, and to do so, you will need to add to your arsenal. Now I do not feel that to sacrifice an animal cannot be replaced, I personally do not know where to attain and channel that same type of energy of an actual living being. Sure we can meditate on it, sure we can harness energy from the earth, planets, and everything around us in our minds and channel it, BUT at the end of the day, it still wont release the way you release the energy of a living being through death. All of that energy leaving the body in 1 moment, not sure about all of that. Thsi is all my opinion, however it just seems logical. Right now magick is magick because it cannot be proven, but now scientists are paying attention to what magicians have known for thousands of years, and once it can be proven, it is not longer magick, it is science. So take that into account. At the end of the day, this is all natural SCIENCE and is not simple imagination. So in my humble opinion, some things require more force then others.
While I don’t disagree with @KurtisJoseph since I have worked through the BMOA, even something as powerful as a life can be replaced with something else.
That’s all I’m saying, this is exactly why I wasn’t going to post this as many forum members on here has had talks with me about this.
Like I said I don’t disagree with the point Kurtis is making but I will say that those things aren’t needed to gain the same result.
There’s always more than one way.
100% I just dont know what produces that kind of energy.
I agree that the amount of energy taken from a life is powerful, but doesn’t everything have life almost all around us.
Doesn’t most things have a soul, I have even worked through animal sacrifice myself on numerous occasions with different lodges and in my own practice.
But raising your Kunda to a massive degree, then double your vibration, solidifying the subtle bodies, then in a sacred space that is cleansed and full with potent energy.
Add in blood, semen, small life sacrifice
( spiders ) or ( miniature snakes ).
Then that energy can be EXTREMELY potent.
Then that proves you are weak in the first place to allow a spirit to have command over you, if you do not reason with it or show your will is that of a GOD, then you’re going to need more than a animal sacrifice, you should start from scratch.
No we actually don’t as I said, I believe animal sacrifice is a great tool and helpful, BUT, it isn’t needed.
I NEVER said not to use it, I just said that it isn’t needed, because here’s the problem telling someone they HAVE to do it is wrong.
Plus a beginner or novice will be terrified and more than likely back out of the path, because some people don’t EVEN EAT animals never mind killing them.
So I’m saying don’t think just about yourself or a minority think about all the magick community.