Does Use Of Pornography Harm One's Magick?

Love, Sex Magick & Relationships
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Do you have the right to say what is a toxic product when it involves something as subjective as the mind and its response? Do you have the right to restrict others creating what they wish to create? And if you do then do they not conversely have the right to do just what you have listed.

You want to use extreme examples yet in so doing you revert back to individual skills and abilities.

None of these form a collective but are examples of the individuals within a collective with their own consciousnesses that are not in full part of the collective but on some level partially free and possibly partially under the thrall of the collective consciousness just as every individual.

Heroin has purely subjective effects on mind like porn? Because those effects on the brain come from the change of mental state while Heroin goes straight for the physical body and then the mind. That is like saying a video that is depressing should be compared to dipping your hand in acid in how it affects people.

Yet even heroin can be overcome if one chooses to do so. We both have no doubt heard of people able to use their will and power to cure all manner of diseases practically overnight such as cancer and other terminal illnesses. Perhaps you are underestimating the potential power and will the average person can use once they wake up and pull their mind out of the gutter. Especially when it comes to control over their own body.

In fact your own argument about diversity discounts your argument about the dangers posed by porn as among that diversity are many that are not susceptible and not subject to those dangers. So again the individual will tend to excel when measured against the collective which operates as a single entity in such cases which is what we as magicians are actively moving ourselves away from on our own paths. Which is what everyone will do in their own way in their own time.

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Yes when it’s verifiable that research is conducted into how to remove free will by making a thing more addictive.

Yes, I do have that right.

I could post so many examples that blow this out of the water - I’ll stick with a hypothetical model: that of creating traps on the pavement that inject you with a poison and then text your phone, saying if you don’t pay (insert average weekly wage in location) you cannot have the antidote, and so you’ll die.

Big lols, right?

Only the weak who are struggling die, and hey, it motivates others to save. Willing buyer (didn’t buy the special goggles needed to see the trap), willing seller! :+1:

Because society is extremes within a mass, as explained in the diveristy-of-talents example I gave.

The extreme examples I give are what I think are harmful (especially to magicians) - not some couple filming themselves humping and uploading it.

But harmful to society = harmful to magick, since we all do have an innate quest for spirit contact, to control our reality by non-ordinary means (anyone who has ever played a lottery) and so on.

Magicians are not some privileged class who acn let Joe Normaltard fall into traps and walk away laughing, magick is our natural birthright, even the fuckwits among us.

I wasn;lt talking about consciousness and perception, but the very real and measurable differences we seem to need to exist, and thirve through setbacks.,

So, cool, inject kids and only the strong survive right?>

Do me the courtesy of debating this on the grounds offered.

No, I argue that whose who could fall prey to extreme and manipulative porn that has no warnings attached (negating “informed consent”) have equal value to a thriving and diverse societry as those who can use it and not be damaged by that use.

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I gotta fall back on my own slogan here. Everything is a tool. Everything is a trap.

You could easily make an argument that American magazines are evil and bad for you. A lot of the big ones were founded and staffed by CIA. The subliminal imagery in magazine ads is pretty much the only use of subliminals that has been thoroughly documented and analyzed in all its hideous glory. Any given American magazine is just a sleek little brainwashing tool…

But where do most people who are big into vision boards get the images to PUT on the board? They cut them out of magazines, anchor them to thought-forms and manifest them as physical experiences.

Everything, everything, everything comes down to whether you use the thing or the thing uses you, and it takes a lot of work to keep yourself oriented correctly and the correct orientation is generally seen as transgressive by the way. It’s the Demiurge dilemma – if you plug yourself into a ready-made thing, it is literally like unplugging your kundalini from your sahasrara and plugging it into some external vampire deity. Vampires just want energy.

We’re creators, not consumers. If you’re just sitting back consuming and analyzing other people’s things, you’re not creating your own thing. If you ARE creating your own thing, you won’t have time to sit around consuming and analyzing other people’s things because you’ll be too busy manifesting your own thing.

All these people using porn or hypnosis or whatever to manipulate people into being hot procurable bimbos are ultimately only doing it because they want to live in a world where there are lots of hot procurable bimbos for them to fuck. It’s just magick 101 - they’re exerting energy to manifest their own ideas/thought-forms/tuplas into the world. They’re putting out that Virtue vibration that will attract like-minded people and repel whiny moralizing analyzers. The whole secret is programming the thought-form with the right feeling. If you program the “crazy sex with a hot bimbo” thought-form with love, joy, and fulfillment then the experience of that emotion will be the signal that the experience has come to pass - it will be the signature vibration that defines the whole experience. Most people are stupid and program their “transgressive” desires with trangressive feelings. The problem is the construction, not the category or surface features of the experience being constructed.

To call back to my earlier point… We HAVE to come to terms with the fact that the narrative we tell ourselves about the world we’re living in literally determines what timeline we’re living on and what world we’re living in and what the content of the environment surrounding us is. Media and authority figures have tricked us into thinking that making pompous little “and that’s what’s wrong with the country” speeches does something constructive. What you are doing is hijacking your imagination and vishuddha chakra and creating/reinforcing these conditions you supposedly don’t want!! You have to create the thought-form you DO WANT, feel what you WANT to feel and aggressively, dominantly assert it over and over til the astral plane submits. This is the Taming of the Shrew. Starve the shrew of the things she feeds on and mind fuck her til she calls the sun the moon and an old man a beautiful virgin.

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Yeah but, hard back at you - you replied to MY OP.

Does that mean I am the Creator and you, merely the consumer?

:stuck_out_tongue:

So what creation is there that has mind-control in it? Why do you or I even register that it exists?

Why do we observe and interact with people who care about there being such a thing as entrapment to and via addiction (verifiable in the case of junk food, the Sacklers and opiate crisis, etc)?

The Divine Paradox looms… :wink:

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Then by the same virtue others have the right to produce such as they please.

People also have the right to oppose this as well.

Ultimately everyone has the right to do anything they want and people have the right to respond to it as they wish. The exercise of will and acceptance of the consequences thereof as others react.

I think this is where we majorly differ. The point is to evolve past the limitations and trappings of humanity and while everyone has the potential that does not mean they are all equal or even close based on how they choose to use that potential or if they choose to do so at all.

Harmful to society does not always mean harmful to magick. Magick is not dependent on society but once again the individual that will come to exercise the manifestation of their will in time whether by techniques we would call magick, psionics, prayer, etc or just sheer force of will and thought as in LoA. Often magick itself is harmful to society as it promotes freeing the magician from the bounds of society to fulfill his will regardless of what society has to say or what is good for the society. It falls down to the what is good for the Magician and those he or she cares about and everyone else is everyone else.

The individual will and good trumps that of society and others because it is always the individual fulfilling their will. Collectives direct that will towards common goals and forms and form mentally speaking homogeneous masses akin to hive minds usually to the benefit of such free individuals at the top doing the direction. If you choose to live in their world instead of making your own you are subject to their rules. If you choose to make your own you need only follow their rules as practically required and are free to break the system through means they cannot govern.

@anon31277086 has the right idea and probably expresses such right of freedom by all individuals to choose to be used or to create their own worlds.

I would say everything is paradox and because we use those very same means to our own benefit whether actively or passively. But that is my opinion as to that idea. The one you specifically asking will have his own ideas as well but thought I would chime in there while I was still typing.

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And be judged accordingly, if rights are being staked out and we’re no longer in a mythical fairyland, where everyone is doing their own thing, with no consequences, and completely beyond criticism.

So, in my hypothetical trap scenario, how do they oppose it?

Societies have tended to certain general ideals and to both encourage and repress certain kinds of behaviour.

A fact I mention in passing, and wonder whether you think whatever a society chooses by majority, is fine?

Literally how?

Can you go 10 days, being normal, without shitting?

I am here doing the stuff I do to drag down power and make it useful, if I just wanted to do floaty-ass “ascend above the phsyical, mere mortal” I could have done that LONG ago. (This shit)

So if I choose to randomly kill people, I can do this, and you support if with every bit of passion you poissess, because those people matter less than the minority (me) fulfilling my will?

Calling it a paradox is not a critique. I am referring to a very specific thing here, not just throwing out labels.

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The High Priestess.
Beth.
He is above all afflictions and fears.

The astral temple can only be taken by force. The lunar mind MUST be raped into submission by the Solar mind and forcibly impregnated with its thought-forms til it brings them forth to life. The astral body must be forcibly brought under the conscious control of the conscious mind. It WILL be under SOMEONE’s control. Can’t blame a flea for biting.

Look at Crowley’s Devil card. The thoughtforms/tulpas “potential children” in the testicals. The phalus is literally entering the akashic plane and raping the causal plane, i.e., raping god, to ejaculate its children and bring them into the world.

Three of Swords - Wands in GD decks. Virtue. Things of like vibration attract. Slaves attract masters. Girls who need to be validated by their abusive father fifteen years ago attract abusive guys who look and act like their abusive father fifteen years ago… It is not a flaw in the human mind, but the natural result of ignorance or refusal to acknowledge and adapt to the way the world we’re living in works. There’s no addiction that doesn’t respond to and fulfill some need.

Finally, that which is below is like unto that which is above. Something of lower vibration will submit and synchronize to something of higher vibration. There are no moral qualifiers.

Things are the way they are because at the moment more abusive people know and implement the rules than balanced people. Simple as that. Complaining about/fighting/exposing the situation just reinforces it by feeding it even more energy. A demiurge eats hatred just as greedily as love.

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Can’t blame humans for making pesticide, either.

Or, in this case, having visceral revulsion to the idea that people can create carefully researched addictive things and that anyone who falls into them is somehow meant to be destroyed.

Glad you’re with me on that, let’s see:

To which I reply:

And if Man, owing to half-wisdom, acts and lives and thinks of the Universe as merely a dream (akin to his own finite dreams) then indeed does it so become for him, and like a sleep-walker he stumbles ever around and around in a circle, making no progress, and being forced into an awakening at last by his falling bruised and bleeding over the Natural Laws which he ignored.

Things are measured by their results on this plane. Brainwashing porn that harms the weak will attract the displeasure of those who care; to try and metaphysics out of this is to ignore fundamental reality.

We are ALL more than our mortal shells, however, when playing the human game, we cannot stop halfway through and pretend there are new rules, which only we know, any more than a man playing baseball can pretend that sudddenly the rules of other games apply.

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What are you suggesting in practical terms, then? I obviously agree with you that some of these things tend to have harmful effects, but I don’t think banning them outright is the right way to go either, as it’s pretty unpalatable to have someone other than myself deciding whether I get to watch a pornographic movie, pop a pill, or eat that tasty donut with its delicious yet deadly carbs. IMO I should be free to do something even if others consider it bad. :man_shrugging:

I think increased awareness and education is the best way to go: the middle between the two extremes of a totalitarian anti-porn regime with its given black market on the one hand, and an orgiastic, Darwinian free-for-all on the other where twelve-year olds are mandated to watch the latest in forced bimbofication videos because only the sexually strong-minded shall inherit the Earth.

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EDUCATION would be a good start, which is why I dropped the links I did way above. Research, and measurable, quantifiable data exists.

Anything beyond that strays into politics I guess, but letting people share experiences and research, and debate openly, is the key, everything else is downstream from that. :thinking:

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I think porn is a sort of magick to watch it. It puts you in a trance state, and has many subliminals, It wouldn’t surprise me if they deliberately put in sigils to vote in the next election, it is loaded with politics now. More important than if it is addictive is that it is rewiring people’s sexuality and opinions and few seem to notice it’s massive influence on society that way. I wonder when people on the forum will start mashing up porn clips with sigils to have a greater magickal effeect on the world as do the big companies.

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I never said without consequence. The consequence would be however others choose to respond. Such as the institution of laws.

However they wish to whether that be by personal ‘vigilante’ action or more formal action.

What society chooses and whether it is fine or not is the personal decision of each individual as it relates to them. One person may consider it fine and others will oppose it.

You seem to think moving beyond humanity is moving beyond the physical when rather it means mastery of the self beyond the inherent weaknesses and ideologies of a single limited species. Humanity is a state of inherent weakness as is any similar state which is the point of self mastery to move beyond those limitations and gain mastery over whatever fields you choose whether physical or spiritual or both without the restrictions of common thoughts as to what rules should apply because of species or society or religion.

I support your right to choose to exercise your will even if I do not support or condone the manifestation that takes on. Just like someone may support free speech and a person’s right to say something but not support or condone the content of what they say. You can support someones right to will or speak how they wish while at the same time finding their use of it abhorrent.

It is saying in everything the opposite exists. Everything can be both good or bad.

This I agree with. Just as you have the individual right to oppose this you do NOT have the supreme right to decide in final for anyone but yourself. Anyone else may exercise their right of will to oppose and undo your actions or work around them.

Yet that means the learning experience is not limited to a single lifetime which is what I have been saying while you are trying to act as if it is and people will not learn instinctively the flaws they made last time in succumbing to certain weaknesses and carry a base knowledge of that into their next life’s mental programming to avoid it in the future.

I have seen a few people already doing this and to rather great effect. Which is where it is a slippery slope of infringement if you try to limit big companies but end up crushing the smaller individuals that have nothing to do with the same agenda in the process.

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Ah, so we’re on the same page then, cool.

But if it can enforce, might makes right?

Known pathways to addictions exist.

Some people and groups exploit these, and conduct ongoing research into ways to better exploit these, in order to rob others of free will, without informed consent being involved.

This is not good for magick as a field of study, since magicians are prone to addiction (Crowley being a prime example), and not good for society, as covered above re: involuntarily celibate people, mostly young men.

And supposing you do not support that manifestation, you have the right to take action against it, yes?

No, it’s saying each thing must be addressed on the level it affects, and that recourse to other levels of reality in order to dodge difficult questions will result in hard lessons, pain, and the realisation that reality beats theory every time.

I am not “trying to act” - I am being sincere.

Letting people fall into traps in the hope that next lifetime they know better is a religious approach, in which some other state matters more than the current embodied one.

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This is how it has been throughout history in all of nature. Not necessarily might by force but might by adaption, cunning, intellect. Some form of superiority to push or avoid an agenda whether natural or man made.

Crowley was addicted because he needed it to survive. He had asthma which Heroin had been prescribed as a treatment back then. It should be noted many powerful magicians willingly subject themselves to assorted suffering that they are known to be able to cure as a means of grounding themselves or partaking of an experience.

Bardon for instance could pretty cure many many diseases and disorder but he suffered his own idea of karma as a form of personal payment. He could have easily rectified the wrongs with his body or even escaped many unfortunate situations in his life with his abilities but he chose not to do so.

Free will is only taken when one submits to such and does not truly take action against it. The stronger will wins out in the end.

Yes I do if I decided it was important enough to me and my development and or entertainment to do so.

The level it affects is subjective based on the individual. WHich all things more or less are but somethings are much more so. Everything can be a hindrance or a tool or neither.

Hardly a religious approach given I am certain we both have evidence of the continuation of life beyond a single mortal shell. A religious approach is faith without true basis. A magical approach has a basis that can be observed and felt by the magician and seen to true for others as well in some shape or form.

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Look, it is about self-control. If you look at porn every once in a while and/or find a need to jerk off every now and then, so be it. If it becomes a habit, more frequent, where it affects the rest of your life, then you need help.

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So an authoritarian approach to ban all forms of porn is in your eyes as valid as any amount of personal freedom, and also as much as a push to put bimbo-brainwashing into the hands of schoolchildren?

He wasn’t happy about it though, going by what I read.

Someone with a more stable life could possibly have kicked that addiction.

Was he wrong and inferior for not having done so?

Action can only be taken, and resistance of submission engaged, when one is aware of all factors, and all reasonably predicatable consequences.

We are on the same page then, just wanting different things. :+1:

I am saying that porn of the types we are discussing is harmful, you countered with “Everything can be good or bad” which doesn’t address the reality, that many people are having notably bad outcomes.

Faith that someone who dies after being enslaved will automatically be immune to that thing in a future life.

Are the rights of people making manipulative porn so important, that others have to die and somehow ascend in some afterlife state to be free? Wew.

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I would do that, but @Lady_Eva would ban me from this forum. Not a bad idea, though.

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There is only one game.

And the first rule of winning the game is this:

In unity the demons praised god, losing their wickedness and wrath.

The demons are the fight, fight, fight, fight… all the wars and battles “out there” that are actually thought-forms possessing your energy body.

In other words, the whoremonger and the man who fights to eliminate him are both inside you trying to kill each other and you can’t invoke one without invoking his opposite. The Devil and The Good Lord aren’t duking it out anywhere but inside you, and you can’t side with one without manifesting the other.

There is no such thing as free will and human thought until the higher and lower minds are blended into each other and the higher put in charge. It takes time. You can’t fix people who aren’t conscious or make them otherwise. They have to want to change more than they want to stay asleep. It takes time. Society in our present age is intricately structured to keep us asleep and our peers just validate our suffering narratives and sleepwalking state.

There are no political solutions to spiritual problems, because there are no one-size-fits all blueprints for fixing problems that are attracted and manifested by your own mind. Everybody’s fuck-up-ed-ness is tailor-cut just for them, despite its surface-level depressing sameness to symptoms exhibited by what appear to be similarly fucked up people. Sure, you can FORCE people to improve… You can forcibly cure people of addictions. And forcibly change their tastes, drives and personalities. But you’d be using the same techniques as the people you claim to abhor, and it would still essentially be an act of human sacrifice as you killed the old person without their consent and forcibly manifested a tulpa through them. A happy, sober, spiritual, productive well-adjusted tulpa… that was created through an act of mental rape.

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Like, whoah.

Please don’t make this personal. :crying_cat_face:

So you are debating with the me, inside you. Enjoy. :+1:

Yeah, mainly by engaging in extensive R&D to manufacture and promote addictive products, while denying that they are in any way addictive and misrepresenting them as positive things.

But there are educational solutions to ignorance problems, fortunately. :smiley:

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If it can be managed but history has taught that a high price is pain in blood for such attempts. Is the price worth it?

Are you happy with every decision you have made or with things you chose to endure for some ulterior motive? Very few are and happy does not mean the same as satisfied with the result.

Yet people are aware of and able to instinctively resist many such methods without seeming prior knowledge.

This is inherently false as not everyone is having bad outcomes and likely not all those bad outcomes can be traced back to porn and not the personal decision of the person themselves. You pick up a gun and shoot your foot off. Is it the fault of the gun? The person who made the gun? Or your own fault as you pulled the trigger.
Next you will want to use some analogy of what if it was a child. In that case I guess you consider everyone else or the majority of people as mere children which says a lot for your psychology that you feel like they need to be protected from their own choices and not be free to experience.

You play a game walk into a hallway full of traps that keeps killing you. Eventually after many attempts you have memorized the pattern intuitively and can pass without harm. Life is much the same on a much large scale or at least larger to our own perspective which you limit yourself at.

The rights of everyone are equally important to the individuals who they belong too. You cannot choose one over the other without tipping the scales towards saying one group of people is more important. Which is why I always go with the philosophy that myself and the people that are close to me are most important as I decide my priorities. So it becomes as subjective as this whole issue.

Exactly. In the end you become the very monster you claimed to oppose in all due hypocrisy. Some are willing to accept and acknowledge that in fulfillment of their will and desire but most just lie to themselves. If you are going to change reality you must except that to some you are a tyrant and to others a savior and to most you do not matter at all.

Sometimes this is true… but then again you have anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers still.

In the end I am against further regulation on anyone. Keep a loose frame of laws to maintain civil order but let people otherwise do as they wish and operate as they wish whether selfish or altruistic in the views of others or detrimental to some and beneficial to some. Humanity unfortunately still needs laws to keep from reverting to wild animals and slaughtering each other.