Does anyone have an answer to this key issue in Magick?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       When Man calls a spirit why does the spirit come and why does the spirit assist?   Some books hint that the Supreme Being heard the cry's of man and ordered the spirits to serve man, some spirits revolted and were severely punished.  Other books hint that there is no way a spirit will respond to a mans call unless some primal aspect of that spirit is within the mans being.  If someone knowledgeable could answer this question it would add to the confidence and understanding of every new magician.

Oh wow… this is something that I’ve covered in quite a bit of depth in my works, specifically in Evoking Eternity and The Book of Azazel.

Your two assumptions are entirely off. Let me see if I can find an excerpt from The Book of Azazel that will help.

Also, keep in mind that I’m putting together an IMMENSE Mastering Evocation Course Program that will teach you everything that you need to know about the subject, and then some!

What follows are excerpts from my 8th book, The Book of Azazel. This work is copyrighted, and can only be reproduced or distributed with my direct and written authorization.


If Satan’s greatest trick was making people believe that he no longer existed, Azazel seemed to have cast an even greater illusion of making it seem as if he was never there at all.
I summoned Him, Azazel, at the tenth hour. He rose, and he spoke, and his words failed to shove towards any further clarity:

Azazel: I am the formed abyss. We are not different. All things are formed from one primordial nothingness, not at some point in the distant past, but in each moment. Every moment that you consider me, I come into being. Every moment that you consider yourself, you are brought into existence. Stop considering yourself, and you will cease to be.

I have appeared to men as they have considered me. I taught them that which they were on the brink of learning themselves. I concatenated their realizations. I would say that I have always existed as this promethean Pandorian figure, because all time for me is present. However, I have not existed at all until this moment. But neither have you.

E.A: Where does this leave the idea of your objective reality?

Azazel: Reality is far from objective. Can you name a single thing that exists independent of your observation? Such a thing does not exist. When you and I meet, you and I come into existence. Until that point, there is no you, there is no I. You exist only in your relation to that which surrounds you. Your very physical form is held together, as mine is in this smoke, by the pressure inside of your skin meeting the pressure outside of your skin, and both forces holding you in one piece. This is a type and a shadow of the whole of existence. Only through the application of various forces of pressure does anything exist. You have learned to master some of these pressure systems, and can apply them to summoning something forth from nothingness to speak to you.

Azazel: You ask if I am real? I am as real as the world around you, which is not real at all.


Due to the stranglehold that Christianity and Judaism has had around the throat of spirituality in general and the occult in particular, and the obvious incestuous relationship of the church and monarchy, the hierarchy of the hosts of hell has been presented for centuries as a reflection of our own political and military structures. The grand erroneous assumption, born like most of our mistakes from our egotistic belief that our race and society is reflective of the Divine, has been that the same type of societal and hierarchal structure which exists in our feeble civilizations would also exist in the worlds of spirit. That perhaps our own hierarchal systems were not created by the conspiring minds of evil and corrupted men, but were delivered to us from on High.
The classical demonic hierarchy, then, sets Satan as the Emperor of Hell, ruling over Kings, who rule over Princes, who rule over Marquises, who rule over Dukes, who rule over Earls, who rule over Presidents, who rule over Knights.
I have proposed for quite some time now, and still maintain, that Satan is no more than another demon amongst millions, and not an especially notable one outside of one particularly persistent mythology.

I laid out the Circle of Demonic Pacts on the floor, the likes of which I had been using for each evocation of Azazel. I placed a chair in the middle of the Circle, black candles burning at either side, copal resin melting in front of me, filling the room with thick, piney smoke. With notepad and pen in my lap, I called upon Azazel. The air buzzed, filled with invisible, noisy locusts. I could feel the shift in the pressure around me, my ears plugging, my heart struggling to push liquid to my limbs. I fell through rings of reality, and the incense smoke coalesced into a column, forming the shape of that ebon, horned giant with the legs of an animal, the chest and arms of a man, and a face unmistakably that of a demon.
Azazel had come.
I posed a single and simple command: “Explain the Infernal Hierarchy to me.”
I perched the pen between my fingers, the tip scratching at the paper, ready to take the demon’s dictation.
The shadow figure was silent. I imagined that he was thinking, or that his mind was reaching into millennia past and through the endless kingdoms of the astral plane to find the answer.
He finally gave it:

The Infernal Hierarchy is as follows: The Operator; and everything else in existence.

The form vanished, the incense smoke scattering through the room, taking the shape again as nothing more than smoke. I rose again through those rings of reality, seated in an empty room with a nearly blank notebook page.


Whether they know it or not, every occultist is on a quest for the Philosopher’s Stone, a mythical substance, a perfect element which acts as a master key to all other elements, allowing for the transmutation of one element into another, or from the materialization of a substantial element from an insubstantial element – the creation of matter from imagination.
If we can summon forth Azazel, who by his own insistence is not empirically real, and he can rearrange every minute circumstance in our lives; if we can summon his legions, which are also not in any substantial way real, to full materialization; if we can command them to obey us and to bring us wealth, love, sex, comfort, and knowledge of the unknowable; if we can then erase from our minds the very connecting memory of our ties with all demons; and then if, through nothing other than our imagination, we can build a demonic army and can become like unto Azazel we have learned the first step in the possession of the philosopher’s stone.
Through evocation, we are able to force a rift in known reality, bringing at least the specter of something entirely unreal into reality. Once that unreal thing becomes observable, it then becomes real. It is often fairly argued that the observation belongs to only one observer, and is therefore not “real” in any general sense, but is an anomalous observation, and therefore can be discarded as unreal and delusional. However, the effects of the evocation upon this world, the verifiable alterations in reality, the likes of which have filled up my own personal journals, as well as the journals of those with whom I have worked these wonders.

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And then from Evoking Eternity (the same copyrights hold true here)

“there is no need to wrestle with any entity for control, be it the angel of mercy or the demon of pestilence. It is not by the power of the human being who weakens under the force of omnipotence, who becomes ill when disease enters his blood, who must be sustained by eating, drinking, sleeping, and defecating, who will eventually wither, die, and decay, it is not by this being that miracles are brought about, but it is through the power of the God within which is by nature omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, who never weakens and never dies that the spirit is brought into manifestation, that it is constrained to do the will of the Sorcerer, that it is obedient to the oaths that it makes, and that the whole of the heavens part when commanded by the voice of the Divine, issued from the lips of the human that trembles behind the altar.”

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[quote=“E.A., post:2, topic:808”]Oh wow… this is something that I’ve covered in quite a bit of depth in my works, specifically in Evoking Eternity and The Book of Azazel.

Your two assumptions are entirely off. Let me see if I can find an excerpt from The Book of Azazel that will help.

Also, keep in mind that I’m putting together an IMMENSE Mastering Evocation Course Program that will teach you everything that you need to know about the subject, and then some![/quote] Thank You Mr Koetting for answering my question and for this occult forum. Your answers are deep and surprising. I think You are one of the most fearless and successful Magicians today. Everyone can learn something profound from You.

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Reading that BOA excerpt was awesome! I cant wait for the one I won on auction gets hear sounds like a truly magical piece of work.

just a question…

as per the quote from BoA, would that not mean that as the divine within Man commands the daemons to act according to Will, Man similarly acts in response to the divinity found within daemons?

unless of course there exists no divinity in spirits, but that doesn’t quite hold as all things are sourced from the creator (by any other name). accepting that reality is an illusion and all things exist only when observed or considered, then, evocation brings into existence these daemons, and likewise our own divinity which can only be realised through expression via ritual (and therefore observation, and therefore manifestation of this power from the perspective of the entity summoned).

my question is, however, what degree of influence does the daemon have over the Man by virtue of its divine essence? clearly it’s not a battle of the gods, and the daemons “choose” to acquiesce to Man’s divinity during evocation, but how much of this is true when look at it from the other side?

curious.

kind regards, james.

This explanation is mind blowing…Never read anything like this before. E.A. I must say that you are the Einstein of Dark Arts. Thank You for that

[quote=“E.A., post:3, topic:808”]What follows are excerpts from my 8th book, The Book of Azazel. This work is copyrighted, and can only be reproduced or distributed with my direct and written authorization.


If Satan’s greatest trick was making people believe that he no longer existed, Azazel seemed to have cast an even greater illusion of making it seem as if he was never there at all.
I summoned Him, Azazel, at the tenth hour. He rose, and he spoke, and his words failed to shove towards any further clarity:

Azazel: I am the formed abyss. We are not different. All things are formed from one primordial nothingness, not at some point in the distant past, but in each moment. Every moment that you consider me, I come into being. Every moment that you consider yourself, you are brought into existence. Stop considering yourself, and you will cease to be.

I have appeared to men as they have considered me. I taught them that which they were on the brink of learning themselves. I concatenated their realizations. I would say that I have always existed as this promethean Pandorian figure, because all time for me is present. However, I have not existed at all until this moment. But neither have you.

E.A: Where does this leave the idea of your objective reality?

Azazel: Reality is far from objective. Can you name a single thing that exists independent of your observation? Such a thing does not exist. When you and I meet, you and I come into existence. Until that point, there is no you, there is no I. You exist only in your relation to that which surrounds you. Your very physical form is held together, as mine is in this smoke, by the pressure inside of your skin meeting the pressure outside of your skin, and both forces holding you in one piece. This is a type and a shadow of the whole of existence. Only through the application of various forces of pressure does anything exist. You have learned to master some of these pressure systems, and can apply them to summoning something forth from nothingness to speak to you.

Azazel: You ask if I am real? I am as real as the world around you, which is not real at all.


Due to the stranglehold that Christianity and Judaism has had around the throat of spirituality in general and the occult in particular, and the obvious incestuous relationship of the church and monarchy, the hierarchy of the hosts of hell has been presented for centuries as a reflection of our own political and military structures. The grand erroneous assumption, born like most of our mistakes from our egotistic belief that our race and society is reflective of the Divine, has been that the same type of societal and hierarchal structure which exists in our feeble civilizations would also exist in the worlds of spirit. That perhaps our own hierarchal systems were not created by the conspiring minds of evil and corrupted men, but were delivered to us from on High.
The classical demonic hierarchy, then, sets Satan as the Emperor of Hell, ruling over Kings, who rule over Princes, who rule over Marquises, who rule over Dukes, who rule over Earls, who rule over Presidents, who rule over Knights.
I have proposed for quite some time now, and still maintain, that Satan is no more than another demon amongst millions, and not an especially notable one outside of one particularly persistent mythology.

I laid out the Circle of Demonic Pacts on the floor, the likes of which I had been using for each evocation of Azazel. I placed a chair in the middle of the Circle, black candles burning at either side, copal resin melting in front of me, filling the room with thick, piney smoke. With notepad and pen in my lap, I called upon Azazel. The air buzzed, filled with invisible, noisy locusts. I could feel the shift in the pressure around me, my ears plugging, my heart struggling to push liquid to my limbs. I fell through rings of reality, and the incense smoke coalesced into a column, forming the shape of that ebon, horned giant with the legs of an animal, the chest and arms of a man, and a face unmistakably that of a demon.
Azazel had come.
I posed a single and simple command: “Explain the Infernal Hierarchy to me.”
I perched the pen between my fingers, the tip scratching at the paper, ready to take the demon’s dictation.
The shadow figure was silent. I imagined that he was thinking, or that his mind was reaching into millennia past and through the endless kingdoms of the astral plane to find the answer.
He finally gave it:

The Infernal Hierarchy is as follows: The Operator; and everything else in existence.

The form vanished, the incense smoke scattering through the room, taking the shape again as nothing more than smoke. I rose again through those rings of reality, seated in an empty room with a nearly blank notebook page.


Whether they know it or not, every occultist is on a quest for the Philosopher’s Stone, a mythical substance, a perfect element which acts as a master key to all other elements, allowing for the transmutation of one element into another, or from the materialization of a substantial element from an insubstantial element – the creation of matter from imagination.
If we can summon forth Azazel, who by his own insistence is not empirically real, and he can rearrange every minute circumstance in our lives; if we can summon his legions, which are also not in any substantial way real, to full materialization; if we can command them to obey us and to bring us wealth, love, sex, comfort, and knowledge of the unknowable; if we can then erase from our minds the very connecting memory of our ties with all demons; and then if, through nothing other than our imagination, we can build a demonic army and can become like unto Azazel we have learned the first step in the possession of the philosopher’s stone.
Through evocation, we are able to force a rift in known reality, bringing at least the specter of something entirely unreal into reality. Once that unreal thing becomes observable, it then becomes real. It is often fairly argued that the observation belongs to only one observer, and is therefore not “real” in any general sense, but is an anomalous observation, and therefore can be discarded as unreal and delusional. However, the effects of the evocation upon this world, the verifiable alterations in reality, the likes of which have filled up my own personal journals, as well as the journals of those with whom I have worked these wonders.[/quote] This answer convinced me to order this book, I just placed the order at nephilim press.

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