What is the soundness of this theory:
a demon who can bring great honors and prestige can also bring great scandal and disgrace.
Just like Apollo, god of the sun is known to heal all illness, in myths he’s said to inlict plagues and sickness also.
Apollo is a famous example. but is this true for all demons?
If a demon brings healing, does it also necessarily bring plague ?
Marbas does both but if I were to be working with any spirit and was wondering if it also was able to do the adverse of its main function I’d just ask.
My question is about a principle, not specific to any demon.
This is an interesting principle question (I like the pondering of these type of issues)- and seeing your post yesterday I let issue percolate for me… and it seems to me (In my opinion only) that it isn’t quite like that… but that the issue of “what is the principle of an Entity” is the point.
In other words, there are Entities that can disrupt things- that Energy can trickle-soak into a relationship (souring) a set of circumstances ("bad-luck"), or "tearing down an Empire" or even a damaging Storm.... and it seems to mean one with That Principle is more Entropic-Catabolic. (just to use terms)
-While contrarily, there are Entities that can harmonize-soothe-integrate and encourage growth/stabilizing and Evo-lution/ascent... again in different situations. (thus it seems to mean one with This Principle is more Extropic-Anabolic. (again just to use a term)
And Thirdly (I sense, just how I’m seeing it, but I’ll be pondering this more) there are Entities that deal not with a particular mode (Integrating or “dis-integrating” or ~ie Frost & Flame… so Integrating can seem to be helping, but could be Stuck… to free up stuck and allow-encourage growth, might need to “loosen it up a bit” ~disinteg). Anyway, thirdly, not a general mode, but a particular subject… as above mentioned: say the subject of Health- energetic flow/parts working right (thus such either can heal or sicken), or Social-Interaction: either make people like you, or make people fear you… (ala The Prince" either Loved or Feared…)
So writing out the above it seems to clarify in my mind that confusing the above could be confusing (ie one that Sickens.. could be the "3rd" sit of Health- good or bad, or the "1st" sit of breakdown... the former could Heal as well, while the later would only saturate the disruptive/loosening affect.
To cap- I think most of those listed Entities in Grim-bks are of the 3rd category.. those that specialize in a particular subject (both per the Mindset of the time they were written (Middle Ages-Age of Reason)- very subject-focused.... as founding the University concept of "colleges" (clustering Specialties, vs the organic linking of the "renaissance Person"
but also bringing up the question of how much they are "computer programs" of a subject matter- thus Social-Cultural Memetic linked As Well As Consciousness... vs most "Independently" acting are of the first and second type?
(ie as EA mentions those that track back of a Sumer-Mesopo or ancient MesoAmerica god are different than those that don’t being Egregores…
perhaps related to Timothy’s posts about “matrix”-software called up by Operator, vs …
just as "Real People" are less easy to define by Subject Matter, and not stray out to other tie ins, or interest changes _over_time_ .. vs a SME.. would a Living God (espec a Timeless being of pure Con) also?My question is about a principle, not specific to any demon.[/quote] I was using Marbas as an example of a spirit that can serve two opposite purposes. The point I was getting at was that the question should be posed to a spirit one is working with rather than asking other magicians. Yes some of us will have had dealings with multifaceted spirits but I’ve always been one to learn about spirits from spirits as opposed to reading about them. Reading and getting advice from others is always a good starting point but first hand experience is the only truly valid experience in my opinion. I wanted to encourage you to go and gain the experience of finding multifaceted spirits for yourself. It seems you missed my point entirely.
My question is about a principle, not specific to any demon.[/quote] I was using Marbas as an example of a spirit that can serve two opposite purposes. The point I was getting at was that the question should be posed to a spirit one is working with rather than asking other magicians.[/quote]
I am exchanging ideas with other black magicians.
[quote=“taokua, post:6, topic:1528”]This is an interesting principle question (I like the pondering of these type of issues)- and seeing your post yesterday I let issue percolate for me… and it seems to me (In my opinion only) that it isn’t quite like that… but that the issue of “what is the principle of an Entity” is the point.
… there are Entities that can disrupt things- … -While contrarily, there are Entities that can harmonize-soothe-integrate and encourage growth/stabilizing … [/quote]
Well explained and I think you’re right.
If you want to understand make contact, ask the spirit yourself. Most spirits are not limited by the small amount of text describing them in grimoires. You’ll also find that often what is described in the grimoires applies to much more than you realize and on much deeper levels of understanding.
You did not understand the point of this thread.[/quote]
My understanding is fine, you want someone else to tell you what you should be working to uncover yourself.
What is so difficult to understand? Many spirits are able to give as well as take away, be it dignities and honors, love or health. It’s not a theory, its a part of magic as old as man. What’s hard to understand that if a spirit has powers to bestow something then the power to take it away would be within its realm as well. As I said this is dependent on the spirit and could be elaborated on by a spirit to a much better degree than than by another magician.
I’m glad I quoted you before you had the opportunity to go back and remove your post yet again. Shit like this only makes you look childish and weak, something I have little tolerance for from adults. It also detracts from the threads and makes reading the posts in a coherent manner more difficult. Either post your thoughts and stand behind them or shut up.
You did not understand the point of this thread.[/quote]
My understanding is fine, you want someone else to tell you what you should be working to uncover yourself.
What is so difficult to understand?[/quote]
You did not understand it. It’s better if you don’t comment on my threads as you usually are not in tune with my posts.
You have hundreds of posts, it’s not necessary for you to always post to my threads.
This is an important forum for me.
If it is for you, then why seek conflicts?
This forum should be a place of discussion and respect, not complaining and seeking conflicts. But in fact you are not a respectful poster.
No. I understood, you wanted to theorize instead of experience. Look at your OP. So only people who think like you should discuss the topic? No problem.
You have hundreds of posts, it's not necessary for you to always post to my threads.
You sound like a child. How is my post count relative to this discussion? I rarely post in your threads as usually this is how they flow. You ask a question and get an answer and then you disagree with the answer and rarely give a reason why and blame them for not understanding your question. If your pressed to back up your theories you delete your posts. Look familiar?
This is an important forum for me. If it is for you, then why seek conflicts? This forum should be a place of discussion and respect, not complaining and seeking conflicts. But in fact you are not a respectful poster.
I don’t look for conflict, but I’m not going to coddle anyone either, Just as I don’t expect anyone to sugarcoat things for me. I agree this is a place of discussion and respect, that doesn’t mean people aren’t allowed to have opposing views. Having ones ideas and notions challenged is what makes them grow. We can theorize all day but without experience its just talk.
If I’ve hurt your feelings by telling you to get out of the armchair and get in front of the altar then so be it. I’ll make it a point to avoid your threads and posts, I’m more than willing to avoid you. Best of luck.
I'll make it a point to avoid your threads and posts, I'm more than willing to avoid you. Best of luck.
this is the best way. Your other foolish comments are disregarded.