Difference in experiences

I just read something by kendall that puzzled me.
I knew that everyone is crazy about the popular figures,
such as: Lilith, Belial, Azazel, Lucifer -etc
But this really bothers me.

What was written about Astaroth aligns with what i was told by spirits. But what was said about the “infernal hirarchy” and Tiamats relationship to Lilith is completely different from what outsiders or the spritis told me.

For example, Lilith said she was child of “tiamat and fate” …whatever that means. But thats reverse of what was said, about Tiamat supposedly being child of Lilith and Lucifer.

To me, Lucifer was just some god, one of many, son of Hecate. A popular one due to jci influence i thought. But i didnt assumed him to be that grand -like people say he is.

And never was suggested to me that someone like Thoth was the supposed head of hell. I just find this all very odd.

So… my question is: What is real? Is this place, just a spot where multiple realities overlap? So …their experience is valid and so is mine? Or was i lied to?

I usually dont look much into other people’s paths, practice and beliefs, so excuse my ignorance about that whole qliphotic way of thinking. Also, to me “the hells” was literally any world not suppressed by angelic forces.

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Use divination to confirm your ideas. I find it to be more reliable than listening to what spirits supposedly say, judging from all the contradictions among occultists. Geomancy is really great for these kinds of questions. So, do divination on everything to see its accuracy, but also keep an open mind.

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I find if the UPG doesn’t have attleast some alignment with research then it’s not worth it’s salt no matter who it’s from.

Lilith was never a child of Tiamat, Lucifer as a child of Hecate is also iffy, experience, research, shift through both.

To me what is real is sits between both.

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idk… in matters of divination i usually spoke words of power,
stated my itnent, spoke more words and then went open for whatever came to me. ~That might be effective, but the one who gives mthe words in the first place could influene the result.

From my own personal experience, divination methods like that aren’t very accurate (of course a spirit can give you information like that through revelation, but it can still be difficult to determine what exactly is correct or not), from intuition to using a part of your body and even a pendulum, although the latter can be more accurate. I’ve used my finger as divination and quickly found that to be inaccurate, as has throwing a single coin for divination. The latter can probably work better if you use energy, but for the most part it does not work very well, which is why many occultists first consecrate the coin so that it does. And for a pendulum you really need the right state of mind otherwise it’s very easy to influence the swing of it yourself.

So, rather learn a cleromancy system like Tarot or I Ching. Personally, I recommend Geomancy the most. Read ‘The Art and Practice of Geomancy’ by John Michael Greer, that will give you everything you need to know right now.

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i might look into i ching, as it predates taoism and recently caught my interest :slight_smile:

oh and what do you think of dice?
like…instead of a coin, i would say 2 4 6 is a “yes” 1 3 5 is a “no”

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I Ching is great for guidance, although can be a bit difficult to interpret for yes/no questions and especially questions about what is true or not. Geomancy is the most straightforward for that.

As for dice, unless you have a more solid system the dice works through, I wouldn’t recommend it. In the past, in the past I’ve used 16 dice to cast Geomancy charts (as have I used ink, coins, and now playing cards) but when I used it through a simple system of yes/no it did not give me much accuracy. But if you want to try it, test it and see for yourself.

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i noticed that…if people dont limit themselves to 3 attempts on throwing the dice -they kind of silently admit that they dont want that particular result.

But i have to admit, even when i was insecure and did 6 tosses, i still was given the sober, more reasonable answer, that a part of me didnt agree with.

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Although I don’t even mean doing the same reading multiple times, I never do a reading more than once. With Geomancy and any other large system I found very early on that the first reading is the accurate one, the ones after become very inaccurate. So trust your divination skills, it’s never good to do the same reading more than once out of insecurity or because you didn’t like the answer of course. But either way, record all your readings with dice and see how accurate they are in that method.

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That’s all UPG aka Unverified Personal Gnosis. Most of this kind of UPG will forever stay unverified because there’s absolutely no valid way to verify it.
It’s not like a spell or an enn that, for example, I received and worked for me and I shared it with you and you test it and saw that it also works for you and so on. The origins of spirits and who’s Lucifer’s or Tiamat’s daddy, that’s just either speculations or forever UPG. And totally unnecessary. Will it help your development in any way if Lucifer is Hecate’s son or if Tiamat is Lilith’s child? No. So why the heck are you bothering with something that
a) won’t help you on anything and
b) you have no way to verify it, for real…?

Most humans don’t even know their origins, if you ask majority of humans where their great great grandfather was from or who was it, they won’t know. And they don’t care to know. So why you care about Lilith’s momma? :joy:


i care about Tiamat because im emotionally close to her,
and dont wanna end up listening to a mask or something.

Those contradictions let doubt creep in …which ends up making me feel helpless.

Tiamat is Tiamat, and even if she has several names and she appeared in several different pantheons each time you will call any of them you will get this individual consciousness. So when you call Tiamat, you will speak with Tiamat, just make sure you practice safe.
Will it change your emotional bond with her if she’s Lilith’s daughter or if she created her self?? That’s so irrelevant.
Most of the people you create a bond with, you know nothing about their past or their ancestors, yet you still make bonds. Unless you go around, asking people about where their ancestors came from. Which is weird to be completely honest.


i will process what you told me…do some thinking
…and thanks :slight_smile:

i tend to overwhelm people with questions, but i need answers for some things.

Im glad you told me what you felt was right @Anassa @Dankquanicus and didnt leave me with those dead ends.
Sometimes, i just need a little push.


I don’t see why many people deny the fact that they are most likely communicating with a thoughtform. I believe it could be because it makes people feel like they are less credible or something along those lines. I have noticed that thoughtforms have been given a negative connotation due to imposters. This is a belief that must be broken. Thoughtforms can be good, they can be bad, and they can be neutral. The usage of thoughtforms is also very common and very handy.

The reason why I say people could most definitely be working with a thoughtform is because of the very reasons you’ve stated. People have speculations and ideas about beings that they end up believing (even though that belief may not last forever). This would result in various thoughtforms of a being. It would explain why although people do get similar results, sometimes completely the same, there are also details that completely clash and even oppose the experiences of another. And sometimes the being is completely different in general from the experiences/ideas of someone else.

Also: I really dislike when people tell others that their questions about the background of beings doesn’t matter and/or that it doesn’t help. First of all: if someone asks, it matters to them. Second: these questions are needed and should be asked! We do it every time with our own species, our planet, and the universe in general. This is the point of growth, evolution and expansion. Ask questions. Discover truth. Gain knowledge. Yes, it’s great and all that they can help you- of course, go for that. But these are questions that shouldn’t be shunned. From my own experience, understanding the beings you work with can better expand your knowledge and awareness of them, it can, in fact, deepen your relationships with them, and also help you learn more about the life that exists in this universe. It does help with learning what is real. Now, I’m not saying you need to know every single thing about them and their background. But better understanding them? Definitely.

We can’t even compare our knowledge of our own people with the knowledge a metaphysical race of beings- who are more evolved than us- has of their own kind. Chances are (and this is the case majority of the time) that they actually do know their history, even our own. So why can’t we? Knowledge is power.

As for Tiamat: she does indeed appear in various cultures under different names. She is the mask/personification given to the primordial force of the ancient chaos. So you will come across many variations (aka thoughtforms) of Tiamat, but all ultimately represent the same concept/energy. As time goes on, I see that more variations based on the ideas of others are formed.


Working with thoughtforms isn’t a bad thing but in his case he wants to work with the authentic Tiamat he has the bond with, a thoughtform is something you or someone else created from their imagination which won’t be the Tiamat he’s looking for. However, I’m the type of person that would go to great lengths to make sure I’m talking to the actual entities, thoughtforms are useful I find now in things related to astral work but when it comes to wanting to meet the actual entity is a different story. Tiamat is one of many embodiments of the primal void, there’s also khaos, Apsu, Nun, all represent the same as Tiamat but they are their own “flavors” of it.


Odd, you seem to be dependent on her, though, and that isn’t a healthy relationship with anything. If you do have a relationship with her, she will still be there. The problem, with this and some other threads we’re on, is that we don’t know that is who it is.

You may consider starting your practice over from zero (by using information from other people’s practices) and building yourself back up.

If it is Tiamat, then not only will she still be there, but you’ll be in a much better place to have an actual relationship/practice with her.


It really doesn’t matter to me if you dislike my opinion or my advice to someone who clearly beats himself down over something that, as i explained above, has no way to validate. I worked with Tiamat for an extended period of time without ever care who’s her mom.

Why? For example, Kendall’s UPG is Kendall’s UPG, Ravens_Keeper’s UPG is Ravens_Keeper’s UPG and so on. And neither will or can help me with my spiritual development. Will it help me with my ascend if I learn who’s Lucifer’s mom? Will it make my manifestation abilities, stronger? Mine, not Lucifer’s.
So other than give my own “revelation” to the occult community in order to gain more strokes to my e-occultpenis, what exactly is the benefit. And do I have to pick a version? If yes, then one of the above is either lying or have a huge imagination. Do I care to get into this kind of argument? Nope. It’s a loss of time and energy.

And each time for any of the above, there is a scientific study to prove or disprove the theory and philosophy. Do you have the luxury for a similar scientific study or research? If yes, where do I sign up? If not, then there’s my case.

  1. If you don’t actually care to, why did you? 2. If that’s how you see it, that’s how you see it. I never said you. I never said it was obligated. My statement was to encourage others to ask and search if it is something they wonder.

Your question doesn’t makes sense. Why did I what? Why did I answered the OP? Because a) I can and b) I’ll repeat it slowly : It. Really. Doesn’t. Matter.

Why did I answered to you? Because more than half your answer was going clearly to me since I was the only one who said it doesn’t matter. Would be unacceptable from my side not to answer to someone who compares things that have a scientific base, and fiction/UPG. Would send the wrong messages to anyone who might read this post, like I’m accepting your comparison. Which I’m not.

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Astaroth says that there is a significant heaping of bullshit in all of this stuff, so whoever claims “absolute truth” then is surely wrong.

Also, she has stated “I speak in half-truths.”