Demons saying that I am them, that I have always been

Hi there!

I’ve gone through some improvements on my evocation and such, and would like to share some info with you, but mostly, know your opinion on the subject.

Long version, short version at the end:

I despide the bullshit claim that major religions tell about demons thirsting for souls and tricking mortals into “selling” them through pacts.

Yet I am aware though of vampirism and that many unadvanced people simply “dissolve” into the background once dead, that there are entities who prey on them to the point of annihilating them into a practical non-existance.

I say this because as of lately, whenever I am trancing, the spirits that I have summoned will “possess” me in a minor degree and claim that “I was them all along”.

Now I know about the discourse with the Crowley’s Holy Guardian Angel and how it is supposed to be our Godself and I am quite aware that my legal, civil identity is not who I really am, but this is getting a tad bit creepy.

I do not believe myself to be Marbas, nor Belial, much less racous Amdusias (though he and I have a foul temper to match, to the point we COULD BE RELATED, or at least have grown into the same adoptive home, dunno, god damn we’re both VERY PISSED at everything!). Yet that moment it feels “right”.

I know that they do not intend to steal my soul, and that some spirits cause a merger of consciousness that happens naturally with having them as familiars or at least on fast-dial evocation, that many spirits wish to inhabit our bodies or at least get some closeness to prepare us for greater spiritual work by aligning/opening our chakras and all of that.

But while I ask them to quit that, that I am not ready for my Goetic checkup and demonic influenza shots, they kinda give me the impression of not actually doing anything, that it was “like this” all along, that in some way we’re all just “masks” of the same being.

That all this time Marbas, Belial and many others were not real but merely personalities of a greater being, including myself. That, in visual terms, all has been like some severely idiotic dumbass playing with thumb-dolls and suddenly understanding that he is not a neatly dressed finger, but the owner of the whole hand.

It is scary because it feels like I am losing my identity yet at the same time feels as a rebirth. I know that walking the Left Hand path leads to deaths of the ego and that it is natural to feel scared.

But I am NOT willing to accept that these great friends, these great gods of old are mere facets. Maybe they are just playing the part in order for me to accept some changes and they are autonomous beings on their own (heck, all is possible, a lie holds truth and a truth is a lie, such are things in Chaos Magick).

I would like to know what is your opinion on the subject, because shit’s gone down to the point where I was simply enjoying a game last night, and I ended up by seeing my own face like that of a lion and proclaiming that “I am many”.

I have banished my place and keep protections up since there have been a lot of deaths around in its history, and its built atop underground water currents that facilitate lost spirits muck about my home like I run some kind of afterlife hostel of sorts.

Short version: Demons bullshitting me into believing they are actually facets of my own, feeling loss of ego-self at times, realizations that “I am many” and apocaliptic mumbo-jumbo.

No I do not believe myself to be some prophetic being of unquestionable power, I just believe my demonic friends are being jerks and teaming up on 'avin a laugh at my expense.

You know, the usual “Oh but you’re the Chosen One! We can tell! Especially from your willingness to believe any bullshit we tell you!”

No am I not trolling, I honestly wish to compare results and listen to your knowledgeable opinion.

In my defense I will say I live in a place where spirit activity is more or less strong on the side of interference due to a hefty amount of deaths and vicinity of an underground water current, so of course I get ghoulish amounts of bullshit.

Interestingly, this is one of the more honest & realistic posts here in a while, but no responses yet.

I’ll say this, your experience has in general, mirrored my own. I have reached a point in which I see little difference between myself & certain demons; it seems in many regards that they have been there all along, perhaps part of a greater, ‘unlocked’ polymorphous version of my greater self, perhaps simply waiting for me to call them.

It makes sense though overall, since if people have unique identities, yet we are capable of experiencing a ubiquitous emotional state(ups & downs), we could potentially become one personality one moment, another the next, a literal constellate of identifiers.

Therefore, when you come to the realization that you are simply part of the whole, with the whole thus being capable of unique & distinct personalities, then in ‘becoming a living god’, you would in essence, be rejoining the whole, and thus taking on all extant personalities of existence itself.

Thus; it makes complete sense that you would experience a sort of ‘bi-polar’ detachment from your normal personality, as you re-join the Godhead, with it’s multiple personalities, who are expressed via the spiritual vortex known as ‘demons’.

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I’ve been holding back on talking about this for a long time now. The “real” demonic hierarchy of Solomonic tradition appeared in the third book of the Key of Solomon, which was deleted by Mathers/Crowley and all versions based on the Golden Dawn’s Expurgated Franken-Solomon, sewn together from five or six different manuscripts, omit this entire third volume. The True Grimoire, Grand Grimoire, and Red Dragon are all direct descendants of the Third Book of the KOS, with the TG being the closest match.

The Lemegeton is a far more modern book and does not maintain this hierarchy. This hiearchy has a different logic - the True Grimoire’s order is contextual and pragmatic, while the Lemegeton sorts spirits “mystically” based on their alleged relationship to established ideas in Cabala. Most of the Lem. spirits DO fit in the old hierarchy, but several very conspicuous ones do not. Most of the Kings come from other sources.

In the True Grimoire/KOS system, there are three main spirits at the top that all the others fall under. In other words, working out pacts with the top three gives you full access to the entire system. Once I had this access in place, I was contacted by one of several Lemegeton Kings - without having called him - and told point-blank, in a congenial tone that “they” - he and two others - would not be able to do anything for me unless I signed an agreement with them committing to help them advance some agenda they weren’t keen to specify. I was strongly advised against this agreement. Now these three were very likeable and had made a lot of promises and agreements with me that went nowhere. But the moment I have a serious pact in hand, they want a tit-for-tat situation, but of course I have to commit and deliver while they go on making assurances. The True Grimoire spirits were delivering service and information on demand, while these guys seemed to just be out to influence me - saying whatever it took to keep me on the line. I’m guessing the more I let them shape me, the more they would have delivered… eventually.

[quote=“333, post:1, topic:4701”]… lately, whenever I am trancing, the spirits that I have summoned will “possess” me in a minor degree and claim that “I was them all along”.

… But while I ask them to quit that, that I am not ready for my Goetic checkup and demonic influenza shots, they kinda give me the impression of not actually doing anything, that it was “like this” all along, that in some way we’re all just “masks” of the same being.

… Short version: Demons bullshitting me into believing they are actually facets of my own, feeling loss of ego-self at times, realizations that “I am many” and apocaliptic mumbo-jumbo.[/quote]
My take on this (short version) is that they’re telling you that you need to invoke omnipotence, as the key to unlocking magick.

Remember, that’s not “invoke omnipotence (all power) minus the power of the demon you’re calling on, because you’re only doing it to call that demon” - it’s ALL power. INvoked. INside you. Demon included.

The power within (back of, and behind) them is the same power back of and behind your own consciousness, and you can access it to shape your reality to your will.

That’s the short version. :slight_smile:

This is the long one: when I studied yoga and was really into the RHP goal of merging seamlessly back into Source, at the culmination of that stuff I started to have these merger experiences, and as a result of those, what my teachers described as “distracting siddhis” began to occur: I noticed that a lot of the time, what I thought about, happened; I was able to understand (and it only makes true sense in that state) that everything in my experience was an offshoot of my own consciousness; and I was able, albeit patchily, to manifest events and objects.

Some of this bordered on miraculous and almost scary - nonetheless, it happened, and people in my life at that time even witnessed it and commented on the things they saw. I’ve talked about this before on here, and just posted a bunch of stuff here as well which goes into it all in more detail.

Anyway it’s my belief (I’d go so far as to say certainty) that while you can achieve magickal results by calling up a spirit and asking them to do the work for you, the true apex of magickal endeavour is to be in that state in which your mind, and the mind of “God” - the All, the Source, whatever you want to call the formative consciousness underlying the entire manifest reality - are one and the same.

Of course the irony is that when you’re in that state, and especially if you attained it through conventional RHP modes (as I did) of renunciation of the small self and detachment from the world, the very desires you perform magick to fulfil tend to fall away because they’re part of what’s keeping you seperate from the merged state, which is a bit of a confounding thing.

However, it’s my working theory, and the driving factor behind most of the work I’ve posted on this forum, that it’s possible to imprint personal individuated will into that state in a stronger manner when you align your consciousness with what we call “the demonic” - which my experiences lead me to believe relies strongly on passionate love for certain events and outcomes, an almost obsessive desire.

I’ve posted what I found so far about that here, and it can be summarised as, “To become like a god, you have to essentially embrace and attain the focus of a demon.”

Only that will stop that nasty little Catch-22 whereby, when you’re capable of possessing that surpassing state of utter Godhood, you’re also not really interested in using to towards a targeted goal on earth - working in stronger forces from the far opposition can, I believe, keep your own individuated consciousness, will, and desire more powerful right up to the final stages, like wearing a spacesuit or something.

So in my opinion, the point of those demons telling you this is simple: they’re trying to get you to see that the true power isn’t in imploring them for aid, or commanding them to go do tasks for you (though that stuff can and does have its place) but that it lies in you finding, probably not through self-negating RHP stuff like I did, the way to that moment of perfect omnipotence in which you command literally cosmic power, and yet possess the “masks” still of the demon involved (and his or her specialist passion) that will allow you to retain your will even when all individuated lower-level stuff has been balsted away by the enormity of the power you are as one with.

That’s some pretty far-out stuff and it’s all based on my UPG, so I hope you don’t mind me shooting it out as a theory, but what they’ve told you fits so well with my experiences I had to share them for your own best judgement to decide if they’re useful.

I don’t actually think they’re being jerks at all - I think they’re trying to tell you one of the major truths of reality, and maybe whether or not you took their words literally in the simple fashion (“Oh wow I must be superman”) or literally in the metaphysical fashion (you really ARE them, the universe, and everything else that ever was and ever will be) is where you stake your claim to be a serious magician, or just another person who treats demons like vending machines and has no chance at serious magickal progression.

You’re very plainly not the latter, so, let the party commence - and claim your godhood! :slight_smile:

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Gnosis, Sultitan_Itan, LadyEva… Please be honest with me. You guys are in truth ascended masters who returned to Earth with the quest of erasing your old Myspace profiles and cover up your mortal pasts, right? Please don’t kill me if I hit the nail D: Plis…

Thank you very much for your insight! Things look so much more clear now!

For a moment there I honestly thought it was a Goetic shit test of sorts, or that maybe the spirits had become wary of my unrealistic (bear with me) requests and decided to play non-existent all along.

Imagine that.

“THO HAST SUMMONED ME, RENDER UNTO M-” “I wanna be a vampire! Oh, and a dragon too! And three-breasted succubi where meets the eye!” “B-BUT MORTAL…! YOU SEE, WE AREN’T REAL…! IT’S howyacallit these days, urm… OH YEAH, AUTOSUGGESTION, I SWEAR!”

Hell, even I would play dumb if it were the case D:

In any case, this whole situation surpassed me because I was initially not able to negate the importance, relevance and existence of the Goetic host. Neither I was able or prepared to “see” that at least my travel down the Left Hand path also leads to the sort of merger that the Right Hand path promises.

All in all I draw these conclusions that I hope are useful to you too:

a) As stated somewhere in the Kybalion, and attending the principles found in Buddhism and Socratic virtue: Excess or defect lead usually to wonky situations.

You all remember that parable that it is said that Buddha heard while meditating close to a riverbank, the one about a music teacher explaining that the ideal tension of an instrument’s strings was somewhere in the middle.

It would seem that my excess of obssession in the Left Hand path took me to catch a glimpse the extreme of “hurr abandon all attachment and return to the source” and/or “all is illusion you’re but one huge sleeping bearded dolt in the back end of the Universe”.

It would also seem that the same thing happens to those who tread the Right Hand path for too long, that they become tired of listening to the self-deprecating drivel of negation and at some point decide to be a little more self-centered, declare war upon all which they have been taught, and “fall” into the Left Hand path.

It would also seem that being a little more selfish ends up making you see the humbling enteriety of “Creation” and where one fits in the scheme of things.

I was and am pretty centered on the Goetic host, needless to say, because I view them as all which Humanity should have aspired and followed. The true gods of old, gods who care, ones ready to empower you through harsh lessons and scoff at self-proclaimed prophets.

…but then you get Amdusias trashing about your room and breathing down your neck when you aren’t paying attention. Seriously guys, ever tried to build a neat little home in some computer game when “someone “ seems to get uncomfortably close to you and invade your mind with flashing images of the souless black pits of despair that only a horse’s eyes can? That’s Amdusias for you folks. But after that he’s a chill guy, I swear!

b) That while all this general theme of transcendence seems to separate one from the world, according to the theory of non-locality of consciousness, what simply happened is that my focus was displaced.

Nothing more, nothing less. No illumination, no “holyer than thou” event. Just a readjustment of the perception of reality and/or state of being. Just as someone who dives into a pool does the semi-conscious effort of not breathing under water for obvious reasons. Besides, I am sure to have only caught a glimpse, a “look-and-feel” freebie if you wish, of what would probably be like merging with the totality of the Universe.

So, in my opinion, no, the Goetic host did not vanish, they are both real and unreal as with the self-contradicting duality that permeates existance. I simply stopped perceiving them as such that moment as someone who leaves for another country and doesn’t see his friends for a while.
Do they cease to exist just because that person does not have the decency to even send a postcard? Nay.

Do Goetic spirits though cease to be and become what a magician’s minds shapes them into? Probably, dunno, I was terrible at math and physics and passed by stealing my teacher’s draft test, so don’t ask me!

c) We all know from Chaos Magick that opposing ideas and antagonistic forces can coexists, that a everything is true, even lies, and if you ask me how can it be, well, dunno man I didn’t do it. So, and in correlation with all the esoteric knowledge that the Ying-Yang principle whisper in our minds, perhaps we and the Universe cannot reach “totality” truely.

All our lives we have been told that we must adjust to a certain role model, that we must live in blacks and whites, that there are no grey areas. From our education to our fiction we see examples of this. Don’t do this, or our endlessly comprehending god will put you through the most extreme of sufferings. Do that? And you will be infinitely rewarded whilst your friends, neighbors and even family members roast eternally because they ate sea food at some point in their lives.

The villains are always irredeemable. The heroes are infallible. You know the gist. But reality, esoteric or otherwise, suggests something completely different.

Perhaps we are not supposed to merge with that endless light that binds all into cohesion. Perhaps we are neither supposed to completely break off the cycle of reincarnation to the point of soliplistic existance. Maybe as LadyEva said, personality and sense of self are a spacesuit. A “mere” anchor for our consciousness to use as reference.

Maybe the merger is not as terrifying as it is suggested, maybe we must both walk the Lake of Fire and the Endless Light. Maybe it was the same thing all long but approached by different perspective and degree, for the first will burn away attachments and weaknesses, yet the other may only be entered with no attachments at all in the first place!

What I wish to say is that MAYBE both godhood and unity are BUT STATES OF BEING, not destinations, and that as one may walk a path right into them, he or she may also trace their steps back. That this existance truly has no end, except the obliteration we go through in our different transformations.
d) The real reason behind my evokation efforts? As anyone’s wish: control. Over your life and circumstances, and over other’s when required. Please bear with me my probably childish aims, but aims nonetheless, in this hopefully brief explanation.

Recently I had toyed with the idea of what would be like to project one’s voice into the distance and make it thunderous enough that anyone hearing it would think it must be their deity of choice themselves speaking to them. Imagine for a moment how many current religious conflicts would be solved if that “divine” voice were to command them to stop mucking around.

Not that I have qualms over any more direct approach, but that is what I was thinking at the time.

Well, I got Amdusias. He appeared that night after giving me an episode of “inner controlled glossolalia”, where my worded thoughts were internally twisted to repeat that demon’s name.
An example would be, initially: “I gotta get up early, 7 a.m.-DUSIAS will do” . Then it got to the point where I was wording incoherent and incomplete thoughts that contianed his name. Like having Tourettes, but the demonic kind!

I budged in, whispered his name internally, nothing happened, went to sleep, had a confrontation (like struggling to keep your “self” or state of mind), told him to quit it, and NEXT day saw that more or less his area of expertise is related to producing musical effects. I was so surprised and happy!

But then the “possessions” began. They were small episodes of mental obssession and non-voluntary visualization, like one would do when assuming a godform. I would lay down, Amdusias would manifest in the vicinity and I would feel as a sort of “individuality exchange” would happen. Like energetic transfer, but that while I “become” Amdusias for a few seconds, he obviously becomes me (logical brain interfering here, ain’t it obvious!).

Now THIS is what made me remember all those discarded ideas that demons are out for one’s soul. I of course battled this state and tried to recover my (sense of) “self” in that moment, thinking that if I failed I would become some sort of Amdusias’ extension, a mere possessed vessel with no sense of self, of “history” (my past, present and future), that there would be no more “I” in a cosmic and metaphysical way. That it would have been as if I, not only my current “I”, but the whole aggregate of my past identities and EVEN ACTIONS would be erased.

BUT NOW I SEE THROUGH THANKS TO YOU, PEOPLE :smiley: And these are the conclusions I draw:

  1. That Amdusias, and the rest of friendly spirits, wanted to show me that in order to manifest the powers that they are known for, one can bypass the whole pleading ritual and assume a mixture between possession and godform.

  2. That of course it won’t be as nearly as instantaneous, and that it requires enough practise to learn the basics of “becoming” Them if for a moment. I was reminded that possession is a mean for being fixed from the inside, that while scary, it poses no threat if there is trust.

  3. That Goetic spirits really feel offended when you fear that they will tear your shit up when they’re just doing what you asked. I understand, I got even worse temper, is ok to feel insulted with distrust.

  4. That there is no loss of the self since we have been the whole set always.

  5. And finally, being a Goetic spirit is an underpaid and hardly ever thanked job. “Oh cool that you found me a job and all, here, have a bowl of jizz. Also, LBRP inbound! Ta-ta…!” D:

I must finish now my ramblings because something got in the way of my daily responsibilities. I hope to come back and add some more.

Once again, thank you very much. I hope these words are useful to you as yours have been to me.

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Hey there,
I’m not sure if my experience is relevant to this topic but i think it might be.
When I just started experimenting with evocation last fall, among few first demons I’ve evoked was Beelzebub and I quickly established a strong connection with him because even if I’ve never attempted any rituals before I still felt as if I evoked him thousands of times already. Anyway I evoked him more and asked him questions and among all he told me that I know him for thousands and thousands of years. I always felt that there is something off about me but I never really knew what. And the fact that I could not enter any christian church was also pretty weird to me, catholic church was actually the worst. I always had pretty bad migraines and felt general weakness after any church but once I decided to go catholic one, I remember there were Polish priests there. Anyway long story short, I was walking around minding my own business and I felt fine, but then the service actually started and when the priests started reciting scripture and praying, immediately i felt horrible. I thought I was having a stroke or something, and I literally thought I was going to die there. I’m sorry for putting so many details in my post but I get to the point very soon, I promise . So anyway I was actually quite curious about all that and at the same time after the catholic church incident i started feeling that there is something dark and demonic in me. So when I worked with Beelzebub, I asked him about it and he actually said that in fact I was a demon. I found this very strange so I started asking other entities about it and they gave similar answers. So then I decided to try Ouija board. I asked what is the age of my “soul” and i got some ridiculous number like 20 billions or something, then I asked what kind of demon i was and if i can have the name and i got Hecate. I was quite puzzled since Hecate is some kind of Greek goddess. Then I found a Hecate sigil in some book and decided to evoke him or her and interrogate the entity on the subject. So basically the entity also confirmed that in fact i am and was it. Now it’s very difficult for me to understand the entities and communicate with them because my abilities are still underdeveloped. Basically it was telling me some kind of metaphysical bullshit. Something among the lines of it deciding to become human but since it exists outside the time it did not cease to exist and in fact this entity exists simultaneously as multiple human beings in different timelines. So basically we are all one organism or something. I’m sorry if it doesn’t make much sense, i could barely comprehend what the entity was trying to convey.

Btw, speaking of the church incident, I have never felt bad in a mosque or a Buddhist temples even during their services.

[quote=“Gnosis, post:2, topic:4701”]Interestingly, this is one of the more honest & realistic posts here in a while, but no responses yet.

I’ll say this, your experience has in general, mirrored my own. I have reached a point in which I see little difference between myself & certain demons; it seems in many regards that they have been there all along, perhaps part of a greater, ‘unlocked’ polymorphous version of my greater self, perhaps simply waiting for me to call them.

It makes sense though overall, since if people have unique identities, yet we are capable of experiencing a ubiquitous emotional state(ups & downs), we could potentially become one personality one moment, another the next, a literal constellate of identifiers.

Therefore, when you come to the realization that you are simply part of the whole, with the whole thus being capable of unique & distinct personalities, then in ‘becoming a living god’, you would in essence, be rejoining the whole, and thus taking on all extant personalities of existence itself.

Thus; it makes complete sense that you would experience a sort of ‘bi-polar’ detachment from your normal personality, as you re-join the Godhead, with it’s multiple personalities, who are expressed via the spiritual vortex known as ‘demons’.[/quote]

Totally possible too, my friend, after all “Life” as we know it is but a sort of Veil, in the sense that to fully participate in something you must at times focus exclusively in it.

Take for instance scuba diving. You require certain mechanisms and items that will allow you for some time to delve deep under water. During that time I am sure you would not be concerned with your tax return, right? It is simply out of context.

But the soul remembers, it does… It remembers what is to speak, what it is to breath air generously and not limited by a tube. It remembers to walk! Something utterly impossible or just way too strange to do under water, right?

That is the conclusion I reach. You are Hecate, you always were, above and below, etc… It also might denote that you have a certain affinity to what Hecate is and/or represents, a pact in a former life or all of the previous. Dun worry, go with it, go with the strange suggestions you receive through your magickal experience, because if I’ve learnt anything is that you must go with the flow.

Btw, if you’ve felt bad in Christian churches, this DOES NOT mean you’re an evil person. Forget about that bullshit. What it means is that you’re opposed to certain FORCES and/or energies, but in no way should you think yourself as malign.

You see, our bodies are also antagonistic to certain things. If a piano fell on your way out home, would you consider yourself a bad person just because it crushed you? Nay, right? That is what’s going on, it is a mere push, a confrontation of opposing forces as much as water and fire don’t get along.

Do not buy into the religious bullshit that assumes the worst of you for the mere act of existing. If you felt awful around a church that was because it stands in opposition to all which you consider good, not because they are intrinsically right about anything.

Totally agree 333, in fact I’ve arrived to similar conclusions.
As for churches, I have never thought that I am evil or Christianity has some kind of moral high ground. Actually, Christians people are among the biggest hypocrites on the planet from my experience. I actually thought that there is something wrong with Christianity. Besides I’ve always thought that good and evil are concepts artificially created by humans who pursued some agenda. Because if you try to imagine “good” in its absolute form, it will be probably worse than "evil’. I’m sure however, that it all was discussed here already and I’m sure some philosophers already wrote about it…Also, I forgot to mention that I’ve learned through my magickal experience that my intolerance of this religion is caused by the fact of me being burned at stake in one of my “lives”.
But anyway, thanks for writing these posts 333, it’s basically something similar to what I was thinking and you’ve managed to convey it better than I possibly could :wink:

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Wow. THAT was a freaken light bulb moment right there. I remember when I was little, my mom always forced me to go to catholic church with her and I ALWAYS got so sick during the service. I remember thinking what is it about this place that makes me feel so bad? I would feel like I was going to throw up and pass out and the headaches! Omg. So flash forward a few decades and through divination and evocation (etc) I also was told I am a demon. I am a demon stuck in this human body… (can’t believe I just said that publicly) Anyway, whatever. I was told from many different entities that I am and I believe them. But it never clicked in my head THAT is why I got so darn sick in church until you said it!! (boy am I slow!) I just posted this to let you know that you aren’t crazy and you’re not alone.

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I too have always felt depressed and oppressed in Christian churches for no reason, ever since childhood.The sounds of a televangelist’s voice has always filled me with an “icky” feeling and both situations have given me the feeling I was being deceived, lied to, manipulated, and toyed with. I have no idea why, I guess because it just felt instinctually wrong for some reason.

Yeah… It sometimes happened that children asked questions inside a church and as a kid myself I was a bit perplexed about the priest’s nice little answers.