Yes
Ok. Cool. I will look for that one then! Thanks! Will Baphomet be your first ever invocation?
I work with the aspects of our universe. To some they are demons to others they are gods. One man’s devil is another man’s god. Everybody recognizes the same universal aspects they just have different names for it.
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I’ve done some before but they were angels. I was using demons of Magick by Gordon winter field I believe his name is and was practicing the rituals which included doing an invocation to the four directional angels.
I have to do two pacts as well so I guess those will be my first real invocations.
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So what are people who work with demon but don’t worship them called?
Black magicians? Sorcerers? 
Why does there have to be a label?
There are practitioners of the grimoire tradition who exclusively work with demons and call themselves Christians so nothing is cut and dried.
Demonolatry is a distinct type of practice. Black magick can be approached in any number of ways, demonolatry only being one of them.
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Working with demons you are whatever label you want to be called lol. I don’t call myself a dark magician because to me that sounds like some weird edgy yugioh fandom lol. I honestly just call myself an energy worker or Vitki it I want to be specific.
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Interesting. I’ll have to find that book as well. I haven’t worked with Angels yet…I guess I will one day… when I grew up we were cut off from everything. All we could do was pray to God…not angels or anything. I guess when I rejected that I rejected the notion of working with angels also, seeing them aligned with forces that I no longer was interested in dealing with. So the demons are somehow more appealing… I guess because we are all said to be demons/demon worshippers or enemies of God since we left the belief system. I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness, so for me it was really extreme. Lol
For a long time I wanted to be religious. I wanted to be able to bow down and worship something. Eventually, I realized that wasn’t sincerely going to happen. Since that first time I evoked Belial, I have seen how changed I have become. I no longer feel that I need worship (as in blind obedience) . I still however do things like leave offerings, chant enns, and other things without expecting some kind of huge return like a spell. Sometimes the contact is just about information, companionship, trying to understand myself and others.
I don’t want to just bash demons for the sake of trying to vilify them. I want people to have a more realistic idea of how they work and what types of things will actually piss them off. Sometimes they like to communicate through disturbing dreams and images.
In fact, I am somewhat annoyed by some of the old cliche stereotypes that give people unrealistic ideas about demons such as, selling your soul with a bad contract, demons just coming out of the ground to mindlessly attack you (like in the diablo series), or demons just sitting around thinking about how they can make your life worse.
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Honestly the concept of selling your soul is pretty interesting. Possible, just not so much the same as stereotypes.
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So if not like the stereotypes…how does it look in reality?
Selling your soul isn’t just a demon thing or entity thing. Even humans can sell their souls to one another. However, it’s simply a “you have your soul until this life ends in which case after it’s time to pay up” depending on the terms it can be temporary servitude, eternal servitude, or neither and something completely different. However, physical people such as you and I. If I were to sell my soul to you we would have to agree on terms be it servitude after this life or during this life in some manner or again something completely different. In doing such the being or well human uses energy work or ritual work to mark said soul upon agreeing to said terms as a soul binding contract.
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Hmmm…interesting. I understand though. Either way…I’ll be keeping my soul for myself! haha
That’s good to do, I’ve had an experience of someone selling theirs to me. Of course it was a friend and we wanted to test how it works and the ins and outs of it. However, the contract was broken after that experiment.
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Wow…Yea…seems like a pretty intense thing to do…lots to it
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Daimon is the origin of the word demon. Daimons were divinities in ancient Greece, considered immortals like Gods, but closer to Earth, thus Earthly immortals. Daimons were in fact asked by the king of the iron age (in which we live), Zeus, to teach humans. Daimons are thus closely linked to other pantheons, some of what we call demons today are Daimons, others are actually Gods. From my understanding Gods are slightly higher than Daimons.
I think that if you approach Daimons in the sense that the Greek and Roman pagans did you should be fine, they were a vital part of their ways of life.
Here are the first three lines from the golden verses of Pythagoras:
"1. First worship the Immortal Gods, as they are established and ordained by the Law.
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Reverence the Oath, and next the Heroes, full of goodness and light.
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Honour likewise the Terrestrial Dæmons by rendering them the worship lawfully due to them."
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Middernag! Thank you so much for this response! That is exactly how I want to see them…I had read about the origin of the word Demon when I bought the Daemon Tarot and started studying. That is what got me interested in the first place…that new understanding of the word.
So my question to you, Middernag, is this…with this understanding, obviously the Demons are not “evil” as seen by Christians etc…are they however to be seen still as “spirits of the dark” as opposed to “spirits of light?” It seems from looking around that there is still a darkness to them… even if that “darkness” is not evil (after all we all have a dark side…it is a part of the cosmos)…
But it is interesting to note that they were given their role by Zeus…thereby obviously being a part of and in line with the Divine and on the side of the “good guys” so to speak. I guess this means that they are in fact agents and emissaries of God then.
Interesting that they are not humans nor gods nor I guess spirit guides…they are just another pantheon of spirits called Demons/Daimons that are another source of help given to us by Source…Daimon/Demon means replete with wisdom right?
So, the question is how did they come to be known as Demons in the modern understanding as evil beings that are enemies of god and man and only are out to hurt harm and mislead? For example Lucifer. Or like many of the descriptions that are given of the demons in the goetia and demonic hierarchies of demonologists. some of those descriptions are truly terrifying… so how did they go from being helpers of mankind to monstrous beings that only have power over truly horrible things.
Thanks so much again!
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Firstly, you are welcome grasshopper.
Secondly, there is no darkness to spirits, this is fluff added by edgelords who want to be dark and mysterious. Spirits aren’t dark or light, don’t belong to any paradigm humans wish to conform them to, so no they’re not any more dark than any other type of spirit, it’s a false claim. I myself used to do the mental training long ago, and only recently returned to it due to certain reasons. However I have always felt connected to a particular spirit that has caused strange occurrences in my life, including saving me from imprisonment when I was a delinquent long ago. I’ve never been scared of this energy, nor should anybody, there is no absolute evil, and Daimons certainly aren’t evil, they’re far closer to humans which is related to certain Orphic theories regarding them being the inventors of magic.
There is no single God obviously, but every Greek age had a God that ruled over it, Zeus is king of our age, the first was Phanes, there was also Nyx, etc. Strangely enough this king of ages tradition is present in not only Hellenic paganism, but also in Taoism and Egyptian paganism. As an example in Taoism the Jade Emperor is considered the ruler of the current age of man, there are many, although I’m not sure who the previous rulers were. In Egyptian mythology, Ra is the title given to the Egyptian God that is king of the age. As an example the first Ra was Atum-Ra, the originator of the Ennead (the nine), Atum-Ra was also the first being, which is even more related to the Hellenic Phanes, first king of the first age, they’re basically identical. The Ra in popular mythology is Amun-Ra, a younger king, so as you can see the Hellenic and Egyptian kings of ages, or Ra’s, are very much related, which could be the same for Taoist mythology too. There are no good guys, Gods aren’t good and Daemons aren’t bad.
Daimons could refer to many things, to my understanding they were divinities, that were either minor gods like Hecate, or served as guardians and teachers to humans, or served as intermediaries between Gods and men. This concept of intermediaries is much like the Japanese Shugendo high magical practices. The Shugendo would contact a Buddha, of which there are many, this Buddha would convey the wishes of a person or village to their Shinto Gods.
Here’s some info on the word Daimon:
“**Daimon (δαίμων) is an Ancient Greek word referring to lesser supernatural beings, including minor gods and the spirits of dead heroes.”
“Daemon is the Latin word for the Ancient Greek Daimon (δαίμων: “god”, “godlike”, “power”, “fate”), which originally referred to a lesser deity or guiding spirit such as the daemons of ancient Greek religion and mythology and of later and philosophy.”
“The word is derived from Proto-Indo-European. Daimons were possibly seen as the souls of men of the golden age acting as tutelary deities, according to entry δαίμων at Liddell & Scott.”
“In ancient Greece the word ‘daimon’, derived from the Greek verb “Daiesthai”, meaning to divide, or to distribute, had decidedly positive overtones.”
“Demons, in ancient Greece, were considered divine powers, fates, guardian spirits, or angels , who gave guidance and protection, and scarcely figure in Ancient Greek art or mythology, their presence was felt, rather than seen.”
The only negative association with the word Daimon is related to Cacodaemons, who were spirits that were thought of as evil, but they aren’t the type of demons the Western tradition works with anyway, they were closer to say, Djinn, a much lower level of spirit. Both Romans and Greeks had Daemons as patrons for their families, so while they may have prayed to Gods every now and then, Daemons were far closer to humans in their culture, since they were honored every week, if not every day. The Hindus also have patron deities for their families, that are approached in a similar way.
Some Daemons were demonized by Jews, others were not and became what you now know as Angels, although they are in fact the same beings. Lucifer wasn’t actually connected to Christianity, it’s been admitted by Protestant scholars that they mistakenly linked Lucifer, who was a Roman and Greek god, to Hilel, the God of a rival tribe in the Levant. Lucifer was worshiped in Babylon as Attar though. You should look into the fact that Lucifer isn’t related to the Protestant religion at all, as I’ve already stated, theologians have long since remarked that Lucifer’s inclusion was a mistake.
For a more direct answer to your question, the Roman historian Tacitus summed up the pagans’ view of the Jews: “All that we hold sacred is profane to them; all that is licit to them is impure to us.” I speculate that Jews learned about Daemons from their Roman masters, they then named those in alignment with or beneficial to their ideology Angels, and those that weren’t Demons. So there’s your answer as to how Daemons or Daimons came to be Demons.
I also wanted to note, that E.A Koetting himself once said that Daemons don’t actually have physical forms, that they instead manifest in bodies we create in our mind. This is the reason they might appear in a terrifying manner to some, at first, but change and become less terrifying. They appear frightening because you perceive them as thus.
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First of all…thank you again for such a detailed response. I love the exchange!
This is good to know. I am curious…what is an edgelord?
That is interesting about the Kings of the Ages…especially with the Egyptian Gods. But as I’m sure you are aware…the greeks acknowledged that all that they knew about the Gods, they learned from the Egyptians…so it is not surprising that there would be those connections!
This makes sense…that is what I have begun to gather…that there are several different definitions of “Demons” that people are using…referring to several different things with the same word…so I guess you have to be very specific about what exactly you are referring to. lol. It is great to understand an expanded view of what Demons/Daimons actually are, and to be able to learn of the help they can provide and the relationships that can be formed…
I, like most, grew up in an environment that said Demons were pure evil of course…but I’ve always been one to root for the underdog so to speak…to know that there is more to the story than we are being told! Besides…that biblical story just doesn’t make much sense to me. I never understood how, if everything was so perfect…what would cause someone to “rebel” lol…
Thank you for these sources. They are very helpful and enlightening.
Now that is interesting. It is very clear to any thinking and studying person that so much of what is within Judeo-Christian-Islamic belief is twisted and repackaged from previous traditions. This would just be another example I guess…taking what they like and “demonizing” the rest so to speak. I personally don’t have a problem with the way these traditions borrow from other cultures…it is what it is…the problem that I have is that after they borrow what they want…they turn around and portray themselves as the ORIGINATORS of the borrowed/stolen wisdom…then they make the ACTUAL originators “evil” and “wicked.” THAT is what pisses me off.
This is also enlightening! I will be doing more research into this.
This basically sums up the view then and now I think!
Thank you @Middernag…this all makes so much sense!
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An edgelord is someone on an internet forum who deliberately talks about controversial, offensive, taboo, or nihilistic subjects in order to shock other users in an effort to appear cool, or edgy.
False. The Greeks are descendants of two ancient civilizations from Europe, the Minoans and the Mycenaeans. The Egyptians the Hellenes were aware of were part of the New Kingdom, the Minoans were older than even the Old Kingdom Egyptians. The Minoans, and the Mycenaeans, were also older than the very first Chinese civilization, called the Shang Dynasty. So no, these claims stem from ignorance of history. European people know little enough about their own history, please don’t spread false information.
Agreed.
Anytime.
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