Demonic Reputations & Morality


#1

This is a stub for a new topic that branched off from Leaving Satanism. :sunny:

Discussiing ancient gods, this reponse was posted:

The following replies take the conversation on from there. :smiley:


Leaving Satanism
#2

Not all of them, some of them actually are evil beings below the gods, like Asmodeus.


Leaving Satanism
#3

You know, this is what neophytes think too after years of brainwash from JCI’s and they’re scared to contact them. It doesn’t matter if they are or not ancient Gods, but non of them are “evil beings”, not more than Lucifer, Azazel, Bael etc. I wouldn’t like to derail this thread, but I had to put it up here for the newbies to see and not get the wrong Idea.


#4

I would suggest someone who wants to work with demons to not be afraid of their nature. As long as you’re respectful, they’re not likely going to attack you. But, very few “demons” are actually demonized gods. Most of just rehashed evil spirits from other religions (like Asmodeus) and some are original, I mean which God was Glasya-Labolas?


#5

It doesn’t matter and you should really not bother with that. I don’t understand that need of some mages to connect one name with another… I don’t need to justify my desire to contact any of the Spirits, because I don’t feel guilty or regrets of what I’m doing, I don’t feel like I’m doing something wrong.

Until Glasya-Labolas tells me by himself who he is and if he is someone else, I won’t bother to look for it. And even if he does, for me Glasya-Labolas will be Glasya-Labolas and that someone else, will be someone else. What we summon after all is merely just pieces of what there really is.


#6

We’re in agreement then.

And we agree again.

Listen, the demons are who you contact to kill your enemies, bed the sources of your lust, and gain unlimited power. That’s what evil beings do. I don’t use evil as an insult, but as a statement of fact. One of the titles for Bog Veles is the Slavic devil, and he was syncreted with Satan. But he is also so much more complex than that. From a point of view, someone else might consider Bog Veles evil, but he has the capacity for both great evil and great good.


#7

That doesn’t resonate with me and my relationship with them, so I have to disagree again. But I wouldn’t like to discuss this here, maybe in another thread when the time comes :slight_smile:


#8

Regarding beings like Glasya-Labolas who are not elder gods given the (usually demeaning) rank of “demon,” gods come from somewhere - I wonder how many “demons” are actually beings with an eye on godhood?

Many Egyptian gods were regional, first, then they made their way up the scale and became national, and 2000 years on we still talk about them.


#9

I mean, sure, in the sense that good and evil don’t really exist in any absolute way and these beings don’t seem to buy into our quaintly human conception of morality, but at the same time there are plenty of spirits out there who are perfectly happy to kill innocents, control the unwilling, and cause pain and suffering on a grand scale. Most people would probably call that evil.


#10

Most people would lock us away in a nuthouse because we call ourselves magicians and communicate with Entities. But we are not “most people”…
My way of judging something or someone as evil is different I guess… I judge the way they behave with me and not what kind of rumours they have around their name or what kind of behaviour they have around others…


#11

I get your point, and I try not to prejudge entities either based on rumors, hearsay, and superstitious Christian “demon”-izing (heh).

But let’s say you have a friend. She’s the sweetest, most adorable thing ever in person; I mean, she always answers your calls, listens to you vent, and is happy to do most favors you ask of her. But she’s also a contract killer for the mob, and has absolutely no qualms about burning down an orphanage with twenty-five children inside so long as she gets paid for it.

Is she evil by your standards? If not, that’s cool, but I think even most of us magicians would have a hard time calling her a “good” person.


#12

She’s a good person with me and a trustworthy friend. That’s what matters for me. If she doesn’t hurt me or the ones I protect, I have nothing personal against her. But if she brakes my boundaries then there’s war.

When I first came to BALG I was shocked from everything I was reading about Azazel. He wasn’t a tyrannical sadistic being towards me ever, as many were saying back then. He was the sweetest, actually. Should I listen what others say, or should I cherish my personal experience with him?

@Lady_Eva I feel bad for the derailing, should we move those posts elsewhere?


#13

Done, shiny new topic. :+1:


#14

How far does it take to brake your boundaries though? I mean it seems by this post I can see it begins near your sphere of influence.

From where I stand it seems you are saying she can be “evil” as long as she is not being evil to you. Which, by the way, I can totally understand to some degree…now that I think about it I suppose that’s most of my online friends (magicians included) they are cool around me but I dont really see EVERYTHING they do.

But in another, much larger sense, I would definitely have a problem with someone killing children.

I can see how this errm…philosophy/lifestyle works with energy beings like Gods and Demons especially since we aren’t seeing them killing others or doing horrid things etc. But, I dont see how this is practical for the physical world.

Like, if a dude has a reputation/likes to touch children but he hasn’t touched yours yet is that just cool?
I guess you’d say he hasn’t touched your children yet, and that you need to get to know him.
Right?


#15

I think the term you are looking for is infernal, I’m not entirely sure what it means but from my understanding, it’s our way to refer to the powers of Hell/Underworld specifically Demon-Demons, like horns (The kind that Chruch told me would butt-fuck me if I ate chocolate and lied at the age of 8). Yes, some of these entities are perverted twistings from their previous ancient god status
Ex: Bael, Ba’al, Bel, Beezulbulb.
Now, if someone contacts this deity they could call it Bael and refer to it as a demon (the “evil” kind) but then ask for him to grant invisibility to a family member the magician wants to keep hidden.

Is the act now somehow “evil”? Nah, it’s just infernal lol.

Like you said

This is our (humans) interpretation of what this being is, JUST LIKE your gods. Demons have the capacity for both great evil and great good.

Two things that came to mind with Silents statement

  1. I HIGHLY doubt these entities spend their free time coming down to fuck innocent children…I mean really, whether you go with ancient Gods as Demons or not. Anyone who tells you this has a serious case of fear manipulation.
  2. Evil is subjective, similar to your assumption of my deities its all about perception. Acts are neutral. But we humans are either too dumb or too smart to feel/see this. Gods, they just do. Maybe the “evil” deities love being “evil”. I mean Set was considered pretty evil even though he was literally playing his role as the god of destruction/chaos.

Early rock music like Elvis’s was once considered The Devil’s music.


#16

But even Set protected Ra from Apophis during his journey through the underworld.


#17

Yes exactly! He has many different aspects and faces!


#18

Why, you want to test me? :stuck_out_tongue:

I thought we were talking about spiritual entities. My answer on the last post was just an exception, but If we turn this conversation 100% on the physical, that changes a lot. For example:

That describes most of the BM’s I’ve met, including many people in this forum, and every edgelord out there. My point is, how we judge a spirit as “evil being” but our deeds are justified? Which comes in contradiction with this:

So automatically we’re calling all BM’s who manipulate and do bane “evil beings”? Are we going to start moralizing each other now? Maybe start making threads warning newbies not to talk to these practitioners because they’re evil according to our standards? And while on that:

So us, magicians, judge the killer but not the person who sends the killer? Who’s more unethical to you? The one who states openly that he/she’s a killer or the person who is hidding behind the mask of the moral human being, probably with family and children of his/her own, and pays another one to do the dirty job for them while maintaining their perfect image? Where do you, magicians, stand?

Are we again talking about the physical? I can’t answer on that because I do not have children. But, I can tell you that there’s a difference between physical and spiritual. There is a reason why the pagan Gods even though they were so close to human nature, they did some…“immoral” things in their myths, for the human standards.


#19

Maybe in a different way haha :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: :tongue:

I thought the example @Nyxifer was giving you was physical lol but I was speaking mostly

I was contrasting the hypothetical friendship you accepted and comparing it with my own physical and nonphysical morals and relationships. I then gave a new hypothetical question based on what I had thought I contrived from the previous posts.

It seems we have the same philosophy when it comes to entities though, I work with Ba’al and a lot of bad stuff has been said about him and I can’t support the Moloch stuff, but I wasn’t there to see it happen and I know Ba’al has never asked me for a living sacrifice (even if he did it’d be a NO, unless it was like my avocado toast but that’s more of an offering lol).

What’s the difference? Go one, you’ve intrigued me! :star_struck:

Magick is neutral just like nature I mean it is nature, I wouldn’t be surprised if the more aligned with the forces of nature you are the more inclined you are to do nature thinking things. I doubt Cheetahs regret hunting and killing their prey or raping other “mates”.
I mean… our bodies destroy beings every day, maybe to our cells we are the sky gods, thunder, paranormal, etc. But we dont think about how to destroy and rebuild ourselves we just do it.


#20

Yea Nyxifer was talking about the physical, and I answered as such, but lets not mix the physical and the spiritual more than what we have already. They are two different things.

I have no Idea what Moloch said and to be honest I don’t really care! When I called Bael he gave me more than I asked for, he re-opened my senses and I’ll be forever grateful for that. He then was chilling in the form of a black cat in my room for the next couple of months, he came and go whenever he liked, he never bothered me, never tried to harm me or mine. So they can say whatever they want, Moloch and his peers, I really do not care.

What’s the difference between the laws of the humans and the laws of those in Spirit? :grinning: Oh, I don’t know, it looks very, very different to me. :grinning: