i used to love some and now im drawn back to them they sound so good even if i understand nothing ,
Which makes me think, if those were ´Saints’, are those songs & Poetry, somehow potent ?
Or its just beautiful and thats it, are they somehow charged and do things, or they are normal songs,
Can some poetry be linked to certain entities and draw certain benefits etc..
And how does it compare to LHP, in terms of potency?
I am also curious about people who like working with angels, do you mind using things from Christianity? Or you approach Angels strictly from LHP perspective.
Strange asking this question of a forum of self-determined gods who are the antithesis of what Christianity likes and condones. Solomonic magic is not quite the same thing as christianity, and angels are not necessarily agents of the christian church or paradigm.
Saints were appointed by their colleagues of the church, thus, by men of power, so-called divine revelation that oh just so happens to fall only in the hands of those who know to read, write, and “interpret god’s will”. Many saints did horrible things by modern standards. Saint Olga of Kiev, mass executions, torture. Saint Vladimir the Great, Fratricide, mass rape, sacrifices. Saint Moses the Black, armed robbery, killings. I could go on but I think we get the point.
Possibly but I can’t assert with certainty. I’ve read often that in some occult books in the pre-face of the book were hymns and poems, such as hymn to Pan from Aleister Crowley in his book Magic in Theory and Practice.
Probably only as much as you give credit to it for. So not much for most LHPs, maybe it will for you I don’t know.
Misunderstanding, this is not really what i meant, in islam for example, there is Sufism,
Al Hallaj who is a Sufi said : I am the Truth.
Which means i am God when said in arabic because ´Truth’ name is linked to Allah being the ultimate truth.
Sometimes, practitioners from within the framework that appears RHP, make of it LHP,
I asked if in the same way, in Islam, there is Sufism,
If there is same when it comes to Christianity,
There are even Sufi Paths that work with Demons..
So i did not really mean Christianity as a simple belief system,
But rather as using Poetry by ´legit’ Saints ( what i mean by Saints is those who managed to acheieve Siddhis or any real spiritual power and they gave it a Christian outfit), as a tool,
I am reading now in forum about the Subject already found some use Psalms to call on angels, so the Psalm can be a tool for a LHP practitioner, this is my perspective,
There a difference between doctrines when taken as belief system vs taken as tools,
So can any of those hymns or songs by ´Saints’ make some good ´tools’ in LHP, Or is it ´meh’.
I have found for example that sometimes, some ´realized’ people, can explain the same exact concepts, from Hinduism, or islam, or Christianity or whatever tradition,
This make even religions that i consider more ´real’ like hinduism of itself turn into just a tool,
With the essence and core ideas being what truly matters, either explained with Jesus or Satan,
This when it comes to ´concepts’, i know Christianity can be potent in that, when we approach it as symbolism, however, my question is, can the psalms, poetry and other stuff in Christian be REAL tools that connect to the same to what we connect to in LHP and how far this can go,
I really hope you got my idea i do not know if i explained well what i mean,
Non duality concept for example explained from Sufi Perspective or Hindu perspective is same,
But are the beings Sufi & Hindus connect to the same, this is different, and how real the EFFECT of the tools of each. This is the core of what i am asking about, in relation to Christianity.
In simple terms, can we extract something worthy and helpful to us being in LHP from christianity, or you believe nothing there is worth it?
I see what you mean, yes. You wish to use christianity and saints as a means to an end, which of course I don’t necessarily look down upon.
You are right that there are recurrences between different faiths, the same concepts, and the like.
Like I said earlier, you probably can extract something worthy and helpful if you believe it will give you something worthy and helpful. As in, you give it importance, dedication and you may obtain real results, who knows.
Some people use RHP rituals to do LHP work and it works, I guess your question can only truly be answered with personal inquiry and experience. Personally I don’t plan to touch anything related to the church or christ or christianity, but to each their own of course. Angels excluded since they are something different altogether.
So to summarize, yes, if you subscribe to the idea it will give you something tangible, no, if you disagree with the overarching aspect of Saints and believe them to be essentially liars and power-hungry individuals (and as such not very much ascended).
That’s what I meant with my previous post.
Nonetheless do tell us how it goes, new experiences are always interesting to read!
Most if not all Catholics call on the saints for prayers and requests to aid in what they want. Theres a saint for everything. Car trouble? Call on Saint Frances of Rome. Need help with an exam? Call on Saint Joseph of Cupertino.
Do the prayers really ever work (for non-practitioners), though? Genuine question here of course. I feel like they’re so much different from evocation in my opinion. Prayers can be hijacked by energetic entities as was my case, but other than that, I don’t know.
Many Christians pray for the fall of their enemies, but it doesn’t happen. They pray for the end of wars and diseases and suffering, it doesn’t happen. They pray for good luck, it doesn’t happen, they pray to become rich, it almost never happens. They pray for the return of Christ on earth, it doesn’t happen.
I feel like there’s no projection of will nor true intent, it’s all subservience and thus I am doubtful of the effects.
Of course that’s just my opinion and a question I lay out there, i’m curious to hear what you think.
Calling on the saints tends to work. Call it anecdotal evidence as I knew a lot of Catholics in high school who would call on the saints and got what they wanted out of it.
As for prayer to God in Christianity, we’re talking a global religion here. For every unanswered prayer, there is an answered one. Most unanswered prayers happen when a person is hesitant in their faith or have become dependent on God to fix their issues for you.
Its as Jesus said, “I only help those who help themselves”. Say you’re stranded on an ocean and you pray to god for help and a boat comes out to rescue you but you deny it because “God will help me”, God did help you by sending a boat but you refused the boat because you thought it wasnt the answer to your prayer.
Christian Saints Songs, do they have something comparable to LHP in terms of potency?
To use hymns and psalms for baneful work IS LHP. Yes it’s possible There’s no difference.
LHP is the philosophy of self-first, it’s not the name of the tools, it’s the attitude you are using the tools within and the purpose you apply them for.
Of course, if you INTEND them to be. The songs themselves mean nothing, no magick and no tool is inherent magick by itself, You the operator is hat makes it so. If you sing them without intention nothing happens if you sing them with intention they you move energy.
Intention is EVERYTHING. It’s the will to act, it’s what your energy does after you apply attention to a thing.
That instantly changed my perspective thank you for your reply!
I see,
you made me remember an Adept who said a thing but im not sure of how accurate is it practically,
He said that if one put a strong intention in relation to a goal and work toward it, if the intention is strong, Angels or/and Demons will rush into helping him, even if he did not call on them. Because they move as one of the reactions of ´the universe ´ to the intent of the practitioner, a bit extreme, not sure if this is true. I am sure this is true when it comes to humans, they act differently and start out of nowhere benefiting the mage in direct or indirect ways. Without him directly influencing them.
the very state they pray with is not at all spiritual in my opinion.
I do petition the All, and i do get strong results, but the way i do it, is i always change my inner state through the petition,
For example, i am feeling lack of faith in relation to a working, i would petition the all, and i like long ones, or some that are repetitive like a mantra,
I keep it going, until i suddenly start feeling shivers running through me,
Also my inner state improves, i go from feeling lack for example to feeling very good,
I hold that feeling, and stay with it, everything get enhanced and i see improvement,
Also while petitioning, i do not think of the all like something in the sky,
Nor something outside or me nor inside,
Just the all, without any definition or label or direction or whatever, not even a name for the all, i just tune to that.
I like to do this in relation to workings too, i would work with beings, and then, tune to the all, do a petition for magnifying my magic, and then get shivers running through me ( i never got them in first days of petitioning the all, but now when i do long enough, at a moment a shiver run through me ),
i get the internal upgrade, and im good to go.
this way of petitioning Divinity is what works for me.
There is also a second way, its i assume i am the all, i get in the experience, i do not assume through ego, i just sense it, just sent me to Samadhi occasionally,
I usually like to mix this with reading something very spiritual it tunes me to it a lot,
This make me feel The God, which by consequence makes everything feel possible, so whatever goal i have start seeming small, i like to mix it by having big and normal affirmations, the big ones to stretch my mind belief, so that the normal start being very easy to get in the subconscious.
However this, i still did not find a way to make it work in my personal experience yet, it is like if they do not exist in my experience,
While in fact, i know there must be something in relation to that,
Christianity comes in many forms, not just the most visible evangelical doomsday cult we’ve all come to know and despise. They just scream the loudest so we all get fooled to believe that is all that it entails.
Like the earlier mentioned sufism within islam, there is an old, deep and powerful mystic side to christianity as well. The dead sea scrolls, the gnostic codeces, for instance, are proof this.
But… in terms of gospels and saint songs. Sure they may hold some power. But most do stem from what the Romans and the Nicean council made christianity into (at least in part a political tool to control the empire where the military could not). Also do try to determine how much of it is your own nostalgia. None of these are reasons not to dive into what you can do with those songs and poems, just keep it in mind.
It is definitely my own biais, i like the way they chant them, and wanted to try to integrate it into my practice, same happens to me with some Hindu Mantras, the Mantra itself hears so good, or is chanted in wonderful way that makes me research it and see if i can integrate it.
