Centre Of The Universe?

Where is it?

What does everything revolve around - for you?

If you answered “I, the observer, emanation of Source given form, qualities, and power” - then you may be a Left-Hand Path kind of person! :slight_smile:

If you answered “A: The will of god; B: karma, dharma, and the highest good of all to escape further incarnations; C: Justin Beiber (or D: all the above)” then you may be RHP.

Good luck with that!

But I do have a serious point to make - what, right now is your axis mundi, your ishta devata, your “If I won the lottery, I’d devote my life to X” or “If I was given 3 days to live, I’d spend them doing Z”?

Does the answer to that body-centred question align with your spiritual goals?

I know that for most of my life, mine didn’t - and that THAT was why I was so epically fucked up.

I don’t intend to become some emissary for the LHP (definition) but I do know that discovering the philosophy and exploring it helped me sort my shit out, oh and also stop being clinically depresed, which is nice! :wink:

Thoughts, anyone?

1 Like

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:1, topic:6576”]C: Justin Beiber[/quote]LoL
well its not justin beiber but the beautiful model mellisa clarke, but i am not neither RHP nor LHP person
my center of the universe is that light what we call our soul or spirit, you know light has no color and colors are just the result of dispersion of light and the universe is just a simple ray or color of that light, it is our true self not mr or ms x or y, my goal is to find my true self, this sound like RHP but our true self is when left and right, positive and negative, male and female,etc are put together

LHP is Left hand and is generally portrayed to represent certain feminine ideals such as Physicallity, because in Kabbalah the physical world is considered feminine (the world of form). Then one has the RHP which represents things like God…the strong Arm of God the Angel of justice holding a sword etc. Well I dont really see them as being seperate. Like the Tree of Life one has the left and right sides.

There is a certain orientation as to how our minds and bodies are wired. Normally the right brain (unconscious…creativity) is wired towards the left body and hand. Alot of people are Right Handed, and some are Ambidextrious. My point is I dont limit myself to RHP or LHP terminology, because by doing that I feel I ak signalling ky subconscious that I favor one orientation of the left or right half more. So why not just simply merge the RHP and LHP and create your own meaning for it? I am sure that there are certain Core Principles in the RHP that could be used in the LHP akd vice versa to where it becomes its own paradigm where they actually empower each other and are not seperate.

I cannot remember what it was actually called or where I read it…but there was a symbol representing the pairing of RHP and LHP, but if I remember correctly it was a Rose Cross.

Just to clarify, when I use the term it relates to the ultimate desired outcome of all my work, as defined by the rather excellent (and very masculine) Stephen Flowers in his book Lords Of The Left-Hand Path:

Essentially, the left-hand path is the path of non-union with the objective universe. It is the way of isolating consciousness within the subjective universe and, in a state of self-imposed psychic solitude, refining the soul or psyche to ever more perfect levels. The objective universe is then made to harmonize itself with the will of the individual psyche rather than the other way around. Where the right-hand path is [i]theocentric[/i] (or certainly alleocentric: "other centred"), the left-hand path is [i]psychecentric[/i], or soul/self-centred. Those within the left-hand path may argue over the nature of this self/ego/soul, but the idea that the individual is the epicentre of the path itself seems undisputed. An eternal seperation of the individual intelligence from the objective universe is sought in the left-hand path. This amounts to an immortality of the independent self-consciousness moving within the objective universe, and interacting with it at will.

By that definition, Right-Hand Path is about returning to God/Buddha-hood via taking on board external moral and oither ideals, to merge with it, achieve Nirvana, go to heaven, etc.

Just dropping this in for clarity as to what I was referring to. :slight_smile:

Like in Kabbalah the emanations of light (kether) spill down to those Qlippoth refered to as shells. Our bodies are basicallly shells (vessels) for Spirit which is our own energy. But energy and information are one akd the same. Its just a link from the higher levels to the lower. Our minds arebconnected to are bodies and likewise spirit therr is no seperation. Likewise we are connected to others via a vaster network which can be thought of as an angel above the head.

There is a push pull (expansion and contraction) interaction of personal energy in relation to the world around us from our auras. Hence the merging of the RHP and LHP is just an observation of this.

My referrence to LHP and itw feminine nature has nothing to do with masculine or feminine energy in that regards of individuals. It is a CONCEPT of sexual alchemy. Masculine vs Feminine energy expressed in LHP has different roles than their counterparts expressed in RHP (but they work togethor). The 8 fold path actually portrays these in all forms when you take away the religious doctrine crap as sexual alchemy hits all 8 points. I wont get into that as I believe in order to understand that you have to go there yourself to understand it.

I’m taking this over from this thread by Tiberius_James, so it doesn’t get too derailed. :slight_smile:

Mystic versus magician - as I see the difference is:

  1. the mystic seeks to understand the will of God, the gods, the nature of reality, etc, as a goal in their own right since he perceives a value system he regards as superior to his own in external forces, and therefore he will shun or curtail parts of himself he deems unworthy of aligning with these externals, whereas;

the magician seeks to impose his will upon the world, studies natural laws and the nature of the gods with the intention of mastering them as tools of his will, and uses all methods that empower him with no concern or judgement except “will this work?”

  1. the mystic looks for meaning outside himself, in the teachings of gurus, enlightened masters, and scriptures, at first, and then later to his own self-realised experience;

the magician seeks meaning at first by manifesting his will into external form, the better to comprehend himself and therefore holds no undermining idea that he must first become a “perfect” person (perhaps he’s attained self-realisation, and understands that “perfection” is totally illusory anyway), and then later he may expand his ambitions to create larger effects that go beyond material desires, but without necessaraily shunning those;

  1. the mystic, finding himself penniless and alone, will reflect upon the complete absurdity of money, friends, and other objects of sense-perception and material gratification, and in so doing push himself further from them, so they begin to renounce him right back, whereas;

the magician will bust out a spell, summon up a spirit, or cast an enchantment to get himself a great career, home, life etc., and not be happy with taking philosophies in place of a warm confortable bed and the enjoyments of embodied life.

The magician may find mysticism and the writings of mystics useful as tools - the mystic may find life magically organises itself sometimes to deliver him things he needs.

Both paths tread similar ground, especially as the magician approaches and attains self-realisation (that he is both the All, and yet that there is No Thing) - it’s at this point that the choice is made, to strengthen the ego and become an individuated God of your own creation, or to slip back, devoid of noticeable egoic desire and will, into the No Thing.

Both are having true and valid experiences, for which they will pay a price of some kind in terms of effort, intellectual rigour, and honesty.

But they are distinct paths, and what is true and helpful for one is not necessarily true and helpful to the other, and so a dynamic tension exists that isn’t about “right and wrong” so much as what’s helpful to get you where you seek to go.

But is it really so black and white? Is it not possible to have the best of both worlds?

I personally reject the idea that in order to search for ‘truth’, or ‘higher meaning’, you need to shun the material. Who was it that said something along the lines of’ Money can’t buy happiness but I’d rather cry in a Ferrari’? Well, as I’ve probably made abundantly clear on this forum lol, I myself am searching for ‘higher truth’, which may or may not exist, but I’d much rather contemplate these bigger questions in a comfortable home, in an outfit I love, cup of coffee in hand and a fucking tasty dinner in the oven. :slight_smile:

Oops I’ve just re-read and noticed this part. Yep- I’d say that’s pretty much my feelings on the subject, although I’m pursuing both material and ‘higher’ goals concurrently

If you fulfil either path to the fullest, you gain a degree of mastery in the other - the mystic will develop magickal “siddhis” which the average aspiring magician would love to have, but on the path of renouncing all attachments, karmic entanglements etc., they’ll be useless distractions, and best avoided.

The magician will acquire mystical wisdom and come to realise he’s One with all things, that there is essentially No Thing and so on - but then he realises this places him accountable for everything in his universe, so he can’t really hide in it by fleeing the material world.

I’ve seen the most harm done to those who thought they could go a little along the mystical path of renouncing attachment, and then found that the manifest world renounced them back harder; I’ve seen people’s marriages break down, jobs lost, even children shunning their parents, so it seems to me that this is the more dangerous route to dabble with - trying a little renunciation.

No-one ever illustrates that since it has this moral aura of mystical wisdom, but I know so many people who got their lives ripped raw from trying a little of this stuff that’s really only suitable for those who want to be truly non-attached and live as hermits, or monks and nuns with other seekers.

The main problem is that the answer from gurus and spirits when this begins, when the crying bleeding student asks for help with a life that’s falling apart, is “This is a lesson” - the lesson being non-attachment is the only way to end pain, and the guru/spirit is correctly answering in alignment with the stated will of the student, and their belief system - but the student usually thinks, if they bear this long enough, eventually life will return to normal, but of course it can’t so long as the student is busy sending big “Fuck off, I renounce thee” messages to the manifest universe…

The point about merger and dissolution isn’t that you get to a paradise where all needs are catered for and all desires met harmoniously - it’s that you cease to desire, cease to feel pain or pleasure, and IMO this is mis-taught by a lot of western people, though it’s certainly well understood by Hindus, who advocate that for most people, they shouldn’t attempt this path because it escalates real fast.

The mystical truth of reality is that there is No Thing: that ego, desire and so on are illusions that often cause pain when they’re not fulfilled - but to live this truth even slightly will begin to cause the manifest universe and all things in it (relationships included) to begin to shun you like magnetically-repelled iron filings, because you begin to manifest the reality of total non-attachment and that repels anything you would normally have attracted into your life, except for more of the same “lessons” that cause MORE pain, and therefore make the person renounce even faster. It’s a simple and self-supporting system, and it works.

The magickal truth of reality, on the other hand, is all the above, with “So what?” added on - because the magician may have encountered the reality-illusion, may have dissolved his or her self into the great singularity, but they still want that Ferrari, a cheeseburger, and probably a nice pair of boots as well!

It’s somewhat the same as having knowledge about the shape of the earth - intellectually we may know it’s round, but we don’t normally need to act on that knowledge to lay a perfect floor or build a level wall, in fact we do better to cleave to the illusion of the ground being flat for both of those - and even when we do need to bear the globe in mind, it’s usually only so we can get somewhere for our own purposes, the simple knowledge in itself is basically useless in the majority of spatial decisions we make, and then only used as a calculating tool for larger-scale actions like (for example) flying to Japan from the UK, where we have the choice to go west or eat to get there.

Thanks for the detailed reply :slight_smile:

I think maybe I used the wrong term when I said I was searching for ‘higher truth’. Because I don’t mean that in any moral sense of the word at all, and probably not the way that most mystics do either. I completely embrace the material, and non-attachment is something I’m not aiming for at all- not even a little bit.

I mean that, in the same way that most people on Balg believe that magick is our birthright that has somehow been forgotten by the majority of people and needs to be ‘re-discovered’- in exactly the same way I feel there are a range of experiences, let’s call them ‘hyper-emotional’ or whatever lol, that somehow most of us have lost touch with, but which we have a right to, and which would make our lives in the here and now better/happier.

Imo the search for this isn’t at all about non-attachment- I believe it’s the opposite actually as it is simply the search, the desire for more experience.

Say for example, we woke up tomorrow and collectively, as a species we had lost the sense of touch (yeah silly example I know lol). If we were then to try to regain this through sense through occult practices, that would not have anything at all to do with non-attachment, we would simply be trying to regain a sense (a means of perceiving energy) that would make our experience on earth better.

I guess what I’m really trying to say is that I believe the search for ‘truth’ doesn’t necessarily have to have anything AT ALL to do with the RHP way of non-attachment and merger with source.

You find yourself within all things, and in interacting with those things you deal with karma/consequences. Yes you can walk a Rosy path, but that takes alot of work to make possible in most cases. This isnt rocket science… The Devil is in the Details…as Belial told some people, the spiritual is in the physical. Think of the mystical truth (ascent) more as a Quantum Bit of information… Then see that peice of information forming a network chain of information which forms the reality you aspire to attain, as well as what you will have to do to attain such a reality. When such information (exists as a dream presently) attains a demse enough energetic charge to manifest (descent) then it becomes more tangible and Rosy…when you remove road blocks that in itself is a redeployment of energy (yourself in all things including your vision) where naturally specific things acquire the proper charge and are energized to be pushed in motion for said events and things to manifest. Ascent(Information)+Descent(Energy,stuff that makes life possible)= existence. It is equally true even in descent that you lose things and fall apart in some ways. You trade off things n to make other things possible. If you find this a problem then you need to do divination on your spiritual network ties and see how your inner system operates…which in a sense goes back to mysticism…or as I agree with Belial, the spiritual is in the physical (mystical in the magickans kagick)