Can you guarantee yourself success? (Controversial Debate)

I’m making this as a stub to move a discussion to from Asking for a reading, it got pretty heated but the debate is interesting, please keep it civil folks! :+1:

First post is in reply to this from the origin topic:

(If anyone wants to reply to that, please go here.)

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Mate, why not just evoke a powerful demon to virtually guarantee you success? King Paimon would be a great help for your musical endeavours.

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'Cause @dagar has been around long enough to know that there is no known demon that can “guarantee” success because there is absolutely no such thing in magick.

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The levels of success in ones use of magick is really only limited by one’s knowledge, abilities and thinking.

If dagar thinks the same as you do, then yes, he can’t guarantee success. Don’t limit yourself so much.

Beyond the self established limitations, one can certainly evoke a powerful being such as King Paimon and seek both help and direction reaching your desired goal.

It certainly would be more productive than to seek a reading that will only deliver one of an infinite number of probabilities.

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I’ve been working with demons a lot longer than you have, according to what was stated in your introduction, so I think I will take my experience over yours.

While I agree that working with beings such as King Paimon as a guide towards a goal is great, and can lead to a lot of growth and success, it does not guarantee anything. It will not stop you from experiencing failure. If it did, then everyone who has ever called upon such beings would be massively successful and have all their dreams realized and simply reading this forum, or any book on magick for that matter, shows that not to be the case.

Contrary to the popular opinions of the religious, neither gods, nor angels nor demons are infallible or all powerful. They can give wrong information, fail in a task given to them, have limited knowledge of anything outside of their specific office, and try to push you in a direction you may not want to go to further their own agenda. Working with them is the same as working with any knowledgeable person in any field. You have to weigh their advice based on your own knowledge and experience and what you want to accomplish, and then decide whether to follow it or not. Their words and guidance are not gospel, to be obeyed without question, and even following their advice to the letter in no way means success is assured. Any expert can still lead you astray and make your problems worse.

Nothing can absolutely guarantee success, not hard work, not talent, not knowing the right people, not demons, and not magick. There are simply too many variables involved in the material world to make such a claim and experience bears this out. So many people come to this forum thinking that if they can just find the right demon or god, then all of their problems will be solved, and they can go from a nobody to a somebody, but it doesn’t work that way, except in Hollywood films. Success is NEVER guaranteed, whether you work with demons or not.

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LOL C’mon man, put your dick back in your pants. I’ve only been working with known demons for a short number of years, but have had interactions with demons for many decades. I’ve also worked with other entities and magick for over 3 decades. So, please don’t give me the “I’m more experienced than you” bullshit. It would help to not think you know more or are better than others. Not everyone writes full essays about who they are or what their experiences are on here.

If you read my original post, I did write the word "virtually’ in there. So, you’re agreeing with me.

Having said that, with experience, every mage learns how to go about ‘MAKING’ things happen.

There are types of magick that I am still learning, as is everyone, but then, there are other types of magick, and entities, that I have worked with for decades via which I can guarantee success. It all comes down to planning, like with everything else in life. You learn this with experience.

Where most mages fail is in their thinking. From your writing, you already expect a degree of failure, in which case, you have failed before you’ve even started. Instead, how about spending some time properly planning, not only the ritual, but also all other steps that you need to take to get the result you seek.

This is where your planning and research comes in. In law school, one of the first things we’re taught is that you never ask a question, the response to which you don’t already know. Not only the response, but also the manner in which the person will respond. I take the same approach to all of my magickal workings. Know the entity you’re working with, know the ritual you are doing, and know the exact outcome you’re seeking.

No one said to hand over your power to anyone else. No one said to follow the entity’s guidance like gospel. Entities can play as small or large a role in manifesting the outcomes you’re seeking. It’s up to you…and the only thing that can limit you is your lack of experience, knowledge and thinking.

This comes down to your experience. This is what you’ve experienced so far, hence this is your belief. I’ve experienced differently, and no amount of you denying any of this will distinguish the experiences I’ve had.

Success with everything in life can be guaranteed - it all depends on you. If you don’t know enough, gain more knowledge, gain more experience, refine your method of research and planning, discover and mitigate all the risks, seek out as many variables as you can. Plan for them. In magick, draft out your words. Just like with writers, what is published is often the 10th draft of their work. Do the same with magick. Do multiple drafts of the words you will speak to the entities. Do multiple drafts of the pacts you will have with entities. Be ready to walk away and find another route if an entity cannot deliver what you seek. Keep working until your formula for success is perfected.

It all comes down to YOU!

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My dick is perfectly fine, thank you very much. Maybe you should take your own advice.

That is absolute poppycock. You can do everything right and still lose. This is a fact, not just in magick but in life. The most skilled fighter gets killed in a fight, the most talented actress fails to get the part, the superb novelist never gets published, the greatest surgeon still fails to save her patient, and the most powerful and experienced magician doesn’t manifest his desire.

Magick and working with entities confers an advantage for sure, but it does not guarantee success in getting to where you want to go at all because you can NEVER mitigate all risks, nor see all variables. You can plan for every possible eventuality and still get blindsided by something you never saw coming. You will go further than if not working with spirits most likely, but there is no way to know for certain that you will reach the destination you seek. All the planning in the world won’t assure that. If it did, then every goal setting system ever created would work 100% of the time, and it is easy to see that just isn’t true.

And from your writing you have unrealistic expectations that will set people up for a fall, especially beginners. You don’t have a clue about what effort and planning I put into my rituals so don’t speak like you do. I am not just speaking from my own experience because there are many others who have learned the same lesson. In law school I 'm pretty sure they would have taught you that no lawyer in the world wins 100% of the time.

You are welcome to your opinion, but we will have to agree to disagree because we are just going around in circles. As you said, no amount of denying this on your part will disprove my own experiences or that of others.

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LOL Dude, you’re the one saying it’s not possible. hahaha

Anything that I’ve truly wanted in life, including magickal workings has always been successful. I made sure of it. The use of magick is actual evidence that we don’t take no for an answer. And with all the other bullshit examples you gave, chances are those people didn’t use magick properly or did any ground work. Last year I got my friend hired for a job she wasn’t fully qualified for, out of 117 applicants who had both solid qualifications and experience. And this, without the help of any spirits. So, anyone who tells me it’s not possible is full of shit.

Anyway, we’ve derailed OP’s thread.

Apologies Dagar! I’d like to encourage you to put together a solid business plan for your musical business, inclusive of any spiritual help that you need to make it happen. I would suggest King Paimon, Suhn’tal’ock, and servitors for individual aspects. I have a number of servitors that work on everything from ensuring accounting happens properly to bringing in the rightly profiled clients, etc.

Don’t let ANYONE tell you it’s not possible!!

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My examples are facts of life that happen all the time, so don’t tell me they’re bullshit because it only shows that you don’t have a clue. I have successfully caused the improbable to happen myself, so that is certainly not unique to you, but causing something improbable to happen does not invalidate what I’m saying at all so, really, it is your “example” that is bullshit, not mine. Improbable does not equal impossible.

No, in fact, I have said nothing of the sort. If you bothered to read what I wrote, you would know that never once did I say the OP’s goal isn’t possible so don’t put words in my mouth.

What I took issue with was your proclamation that magick guarantees success, because that is patently false and flies in the face of all mathematical probability.

I never said it wasn’t possible. I never said that it couldn’t happen. I never said that it won’t happen. Only that it is not assured, magick or not. That’s it. So come down off your high horse.

The possibility of something happening does not exclude the possibility of that something also NOT happening. In fact for one possibility to exist, so must the other. That is the duality of the world we live in and no matter what lies you like to tell yourself, that is a fact that cannot be disputed.

Even if the probability of an event happening was 99.9999%, there is still that 0.0001% probability of it not happening. There is an extremely high probability that the sun will rise in the morning, but the possibility also exists, however infinitesimal, that it will go nova and scour the Earth of all life. Nothing is ever 100% assured, and magick cannot cannot change that.

Edit to add: Apologies, @dagar for the derailment. Hit me up in PM and I’ll do a reading for you.

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Mate, I’m not having a bullshit argument with you. I’ve met plenty of people like you who try to tell me what I’ve already experienced is not possible. That’s not my problem. Nor am I interested in whatever issue triggered you off. I’m not going to let anyone tell me what is and isn’t possible. I only replied to dagar to try and help him.

And the reason why I don’t share anything I know or have experienced with magick, or even share anything about myself here is because of people like you who think they know everything. I’ve seen your posts where you come with some self proclaimed authority. You even tried to tell me how much more experienced you think you are than me. Doesn’t mean shit to me. I’ve had plenty of dick wagging contests when I was younger, but with age and hopefully some wisdom, one realises that’s a complete waste of time. So, I will do my best to not try and help anyone on here.

So, at this moment, lets just do this…you keep believing what you believe, and I will continue believing what I’ve experienced.

I’m out!

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Whatever you say, dude. :roll_eyes:

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Interesting readings and thank you all who contributed on this discussion.
But flagged for moderation as off topics.

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Cheers, I made it its own topic, interesting discussion. Reminder to please keep things civil though! :kissing_heart:

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Adding to this,
EA Koettings first successful evocation harvested no results from King Paimon.

“The decision had already been made” comes to mind.

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This is a post he made about it: Here's Something We Seldom Hear About

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Perfect!

My opinion on this is that, no, demons definitely can not guarantee success.
I’ve had personal experiences where I have performed evocations for something well within the realm of probable possibilities but I wanted it to happen faster, and achieved no results at all.

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Also adding to this -
There’s a relatively famous story about Bune, in which a man continuly performed evocations in order to get an exact amount of money using her help, let’s say the number was $265,456. Finally, Bune abliged after weeks of saying it’s not possibile at this current time.

Well, the next day, he comes home from work to find his family home had been burnt to the ground, only to discover his insurance payout would be exactly $265,456.

Guaranteeing success may have it’s negatives that far out weigh the possible positives.

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The phrase, “be careful what you wish for” comes to mind. Nothing always comes true, but it just might.

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Well. Thank you guys for the input and everything :yum:. @DarkestKnight magick still makes it more probable right? I’m aware that nothing is guaranteed but I always thought that with magick it kinda became a matter of when not if.

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Hey, I’ve had plenty of failures too (some spectacularly bad giving me the opposite results of what I wanted), but I’ve also had some really amazing successes, so, I came to this forum to learn more, to get better at evocation, and to get better results from the demons.
Since I have been on this path, I think I have really improved at knowing myself, at divination, and I’ve learned new rituals and new strategies to try. Time will tell whether this all pays off, or ends up going nowhere.

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